My LDS is just ticking me off....

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Every industry has those operations that are not the cream of the crop. If they aren't supporting you look for another LDS.
one who you can trust and who is worthy of supporting.

As a DS affiliated instructor I can say that the LDSs in my area that are poor performers are only helping our shop grow our business.

How would you like to walk into a dive shop where the person behind the counters first words to you are "So, what the hell do you want..." We have had more customers come to us from that shop who will never go back becuase the owner i work for runs the shop like a professional business and not like a cool hobby that can potentially make him some money.
 
Something to consider - I have changed my primary LDS because I didn't like the attitude/approach of the owner of the local shop manager. I don't have anything against the chain of dive shops and when in the right areas I use them for air and gear needs (if needed). However, I made a conscious decision to change local dive shops to another thats just a little farther off in the opposite direction, but what did it was the fact that I can hang out in the shop, chat, try on gear, try out gear, watch various trip videos, and meet other local divers and divers to be. The bottom line is, if you dont like how your being treated, go somewhere else.

As far as booking trips and such, 15 years ago when there were only a few of us online and HTTP was just in its infantcy, sure.. the dive shop was the way to go. Welcome to 2004.6.19, where we have the ability to price bid, research where we want to go and what we want to do with pictures, and even contact and book every step of our travels without having to pay more for someone else to do it for us.
 
If you went into a resturant and wanted a hot dog but they only served steak would you be upset? Dude its the guys shop he is not obligated to provide specific trips. Now it may be a good idea for him to do it but he is not obligated. I do not want to upset you but sounds to me like your just upset that you do not have the time or money to go on the expensive trips. Before you get mad think about it.


J
 
SamDiver,

I can feel your pain. The LDS I did most of my training through and bought a good portion of my gear through is really p'ing me off. The man that managed the shop when I first started going there has since moved on to more stable employment (HS teacher). We were pretty good friends and would regualarly hang out outside of the shop. The new management is very un customer friendly, viewing me as a bank account number. I have since stopped going to that dive shop and went to another, not as nice but they are very friendly and helpful, even though they don't service sherwood regs. You have to do what is best for you, and unfortunately it sounds like that one particular LDS is the only one conveinent to you.

Paul
 
Loyaltie schmoyaltie do what makes you Happy.
Although I like the LDS I certified with. I have gone to other dive stores to see what products they offer or to try something on (BC's and what not) as well as purchass some items. I have been to at least a dozen shops in the NE area to check things out so to speek. And It's been very tempting to go buy gear over the border in NH where they have no sales tax. But anyway dont be afraid to shop around.You have nothing to lose.
 
Well Jagfish asked if I had already decided what to do or more precisely asked what direction I was leaning in now.
Someone earlier said that maybe I was just mad that I didn't get to go on any of the expensive trips. That is certainly not the case. I am mad that the instructor of the DiveCon class I paid a lot of money for has said that I need to go on a lot more trips before I finish my certification. (I haven't decided whether or not to pay the insurance and finish my cert. to become a bona fide dive professional, I am already done with the class). If I hadn't paid for the stupid classes that I have taken to this point, if I hadn't spent the huge amounts of money on gear, I might actually have some money to take trips.
I guess part of the problem is what you might think that the LDS is supposed to be. I want a place where there is a personal relationship. Is this mixing business with pleasure? Of course, but in my opinion any business dealing with diving is mixing business with pleasure. My LDS is supposed to be a place of support, camaraderie, equipment, information, education, and yes even personal relationships. My LDS is not living up to these expectations and I believe I can probably find them met somewhere else. I mean here is the thing, I like to dive but I don't have to do it in a way that makes them any profit at all. In return for my money and loyalty I think I do deserve to have at least most of my expectations met. (Read Tom Morris "If Aristotle Ran General Motors".) What are the reasons keeping me there? Most of the instructors are great people, they have trained me, helped me select equipment, answered questions, and been travel buddies. There are other shop customers who I have come to know whom I have shared classes with, whom I have traveled with, and whom I consider my friends. Since I don't live in the same city as these people the dive shop is how we maintain our relationships. I have depended on my dive shop to maintain the equipment I have bought there, before I started learning to maintain my own. Guess where I have learned to maintain my equipment? You got it, my LDS.
I think an LDS is where new divers should be able to come and learn about our SCUBA world. I think they should feel comfortable, not intimidated, encouraged and supported. The LDS is the last place that a diver should encounter the arrogant sort of experienced diver attitude that we see on the board all the time.
In some ways my LDS still does some of these things, but its not meeting my needs. Can I arrange my own dive trips? Of course, but they aren't with a group of people I already know. There really isn't much of a club opportunity here, I live in Mississippi, most people won't put up the shotgun and park the 4 wheel drive long enough to learn to dive. There aren't many divers.
One of my biggest concerns is my LDS is where all of my training has been. I originally started looking forward to the day when I would be a part of the team I so admired. These are people that I have trusted. I have never went in looking for the best price on gear, I paid their price because I was buying more than the gear. I was trying to support a shop that was everything it should be.
Maybe I am a bit idealistic, but how else will we continue this sport. The heart of diving is in the local dive shop. Diving is an expensive and consumerist driven sport. Our dive shops are on the front line, in the yellow pages there isn't an SSI listing or PADI listing instead there is a dive shop listed. When the interested non diver gets information who do they get it from? Sometimes people have a diving friend but generally most divers aren't instructors, so where do we take them? The LDS to talk to our instructor. Get my point?
My LDS is the only dive shop for probably 150 miles in any direction. (Give or take). What about the non diving community, who will represent diving to them in this area?
Okay enough of all of that. My preference is that my dive shop would meet my expectations and meet my needs as well as the needs of the community as a whole. But I am so tired of it that I am ready to find another shop that does meet my needs. It is disappointing and somewhat heart-wrenching to think about. This has been my diving home for over five years. But maybe it is time to move.
 
SamDiver14:
Well Jagfish asked if I had already decided what to do or more precisely asked what direction I was leaning in now.
Someone earlier said that maybe I was just mad that I didn't get to go on any of the expensive trips. That is certainly not the case. I am mad that the instructor of the DiveCon class I paid a lot of money for has said that I need to go on a lot more trips before I finish my certification. (I haven't decided whether or not to pay the insurance and finish my cert. to become a bona fide dive professional, I am already done with the class). If I hadn't paid for the stupid classes that I have taken to this point, if I hadn't spent the huge amounts of money on gear, I might actually have some money to take trips.
I guess part of the problem is what you might think that the LDS is supposed to be. I want a place where there is a personal relationship. Is this mixing business with pleasure? Of course, but in my opinion any business dealing with diving is mixing business with pleasure. My LDS is supposed to be a place of support, camaraderie, equipment, information, education, and yes even personal relationships. My LDS is not living up to these expectations and I believe I can probably find them met somewhere else. I mean here is the thing, I like to dive but I don't have to do it in a way that makes them any profit at all. In return for my money and loyalty I think I do deserve to have at least most of my expectations met. (Read Tom Morris "If Aristotle Ran General Motors".) What are the reasons keeping me there? Most of the instructors are great people, they have trained me, helped me select equipment, answered questions, and been travel buddies. There are other shop customers who I have come to know whom I have shared classes with, whom I have traveled with, and whom I consider my friends. Since I don't live in the same city as these people the dive shop is how we maintain our relationships. I have depended on my dive shop to maintain the equipment I have bought there, before I started learning to maintain my own. Guess where I have learned to maintain my equipment? You got it, my LDS.
I think an LDS is where new divers should be able to come and learn about our SCUBA world. I think they should feel comfortable, not intimidated, encouraged and supported. The LDS is the last place that a diver should encounter the arrogant sort of experienced diver attitude that we see on the board all the time.
In some ways my LDS still does some of these things, but its not meeting my needs. Can I arrange my own dive trips? Of course, but they aren't with a group of people I already know. There really isn't much of a club opportunity here, I live in Mississippi, most people won't put up the shotgun and park the 4 wheel drive long enough to learn to dive. There aren't many divers.
One of my biggest concerns is my LDS is where all of my training has been. I originally started looking forward to the day when I would be a part of the team I so admired. These are people that I have trusted. I have never went in looking for the best price on gear, I paid their price because I was buying more than the gear. I was trying to support a shop that was everything it should be.
Maybe I am a bit idealistic, but how else will we continue this sport. The heart of diving is in the local dive shop. Diving is an expensive and consumerist driven sport. Our dive shops are on the front line, in the yellow pages there isn't an SSI listing or PADI listing instead there is a dive shop listed. When the interested non diver gets information who do they get it from? Sometimes people have a diving friend but generally most divers aren't instructors, so where do we take them? The LDS to talk to our instructor. Get my point?
My LDS is the only dive shop for probably 150 miles in any direction. (Give or take). What about the non diving community, who will represent diving to them in this area?
Okay enough of all of that. My preference is that my dive shop would meet my expectations and meet my needs as well as the needs of the community as a whole. But I am so tired of it that I am ready to find another shop that does meet my needs. It is disappointing and somewhat heart-wrenching to think about. This has been my diving home for over five years. But maybe it is time to move.

With respect to you, open your own shop, stock it and staff it, and run it as you desire.

It is your choice to spend lots of money on different certs and on expensive gear. Find your own partners and plan your own trips. Would you expect the local hardware store to hold your hand because you bought a set of hand tools there? I doubt it.

Dive shops are in business to make a profit for their owners, nothing else. Each owner runs his (or her) business in their own way. If you don't like one shop, go to another.

I presently use four different LDS's, two in IL and two in FL. Each serves different needs of mine. I have good relations with all, but each is run differently. Two are part of chains, and two are independent. I have also bought from LP, but I don't consider them an LDS in this context. No LP flames, please.

Have fun, go diving, and have fun.
 
Gary you make some good points and I will have to think about those.
I do have a really good relationship with my hardware/feed store, also with several privately owned restraunts, body shops, mechanics shops, etc. I think it is the best and most profitable way of doing business.
Maybe you are right, maybe I should just open a dive shop and if nothing else the competition may make my current LDS tighten up.
Thanks for your insights.

Sam
 
One thing that cheezes me off is the way in which some LDS's almost extort money from potential customers. Please note that I said, "almost".
I'm fortunate that there are numerous LDS's in the greater Atlanta area. The large number of shops makes it easy for one to make choices that suits her/his budget much better.
However, there is one LDS in the Atlanta area that will not give certification dives locally. One must book a place on one of their dive trips to Miami or the Keys in order to make ones certification dives.
Case in point, the cost for an AOW certification through this shop is $150. But in order to make the required dives, one must purchase a $300-$400 dive trip. Seeing how one of the largest lakes in the state of Georgia is only a 30 minute drive from their shop, I asked if my wife could do her AOW dives at Lake Lanier. The response from the LDS representative was basically, and I paraphrase,"No, it's just too cold and the visibility is not as good as Florida, yadda, yadda, yadda, ad infinitum . . .".
I don't mind a shop making a profit, but I find this type of marketing most egregious.
Thank God for free markets!!!
OK, I'm through now.
 
Oh !!!
And one more thing !!!
When we went to see about having my wife take her AOW course with them, they required a $75 "inspection fee" to make sure that my wife's gear was acceptable because she had not purchased it from their shop.
OK, I really am through now.
 

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