My first in water situation....

[crispos]

Maybe i should expand, underwater weight ditch i see as nothing more than a dangerous relic. It could be handy on the surface to float a casualty that bit higher although on the other hand we manage AV on a fully kitted (with belt) casualty without trouble.

Jettisoning a weight belt underwater from any depth IS going to hurt the person with its barotrauma, embolism, DCS or all of the above. Again i cant think of a single situation where thats the best option.

We had a guy here (on SB), Dr. Bill, an experienced diver, that had his reg completely fail (nothing came out, period), I think it was at 60 feet. In which case, he had to do a free ascent. I can't remember if it was buoyant or a CESA. Ask him.

You can ask him, whether it was better to drown at the bottom or get on O2 at the surface. I think he was either diving solo or his buddy was far away.

I think the stats show that a fair percentage of dive fatalities are found on the bottom with their weight belt on and air in the tank. That would indicate they have (I should say had) nothing to lose by ditching their weights.

 

[miketsp]

We had a guy here (on SB), Dr. Bill, an experienced diver, that had his reg completely fail (nothing came out, period), I think it was at 60 feet. In which case, he had to do a free ascent. I can't remember if it was buoyant or a CESA. Ask him.

You can ask him, whether it was better to drown at the bottom or get on O2 at the surface. I think he was either diving solo or his buddy was far away.

I think the stats show that a fair percentage of dive fatalities are found on the bottom with their weight belt on and air in the tank. That would indicate they have (I should say had) nothing to lose by ditching their weights.

Maybe there's some validity in the CMAS advanced training that requires you to practice breathing directly from the cylinder cupping your hand above your mouth?

Especially useful for solo divers with non duplicated gear....

Oh yes they also teach you that as a last resort you can take that big useless (according to many opinions on Scubaboard) knife strapped to the inside of your leg and cut the HP hose to your manometer. It will bubble for long enough for you to surface.

 

[String]

We had a guy here (on SB), Dr. Bill, an experienced diver, that had his reg completely fail (nothing came out, period), I think it was at 60 feet. In which case, he had to do a free ascent. I can't remember if it was buoyant or a CESA. Ask him.

You can ask him, whether it was better to drown at the bottom or get on O2 at the surface. I think he was either diving solo or his buddy was far away.

I think the stats show that a fair percentage of dive fatalities are found on the bottom with their weight belt on and air in the tank. That would indicate they have (I should say had) nothing to lose by ditching their weights.

I still maintain there are other solutions. The first issue is, he was solo. Second issue if his reg failed what happened to his octopus ? Was it his first stage? If solo diving why no redundant air source ? Solo diving on one cylinder is crazy. Secondly why was he so heavily weighted and non neutral that a gentle fin up wouldnt start a controlled ascent (he WAS neutral at the time wasnt he?....)

Onto the last bit, casualties on the bottom with NO air in the tank and weights still on could possibly have ditched their weights but on the bottom WITH air hints that something else happened and there was no immediate rush to surface.

I still cant see any situation what so ever where i could possibly imagine dumping my weight as the best course of action for any problem what so ever.

 

[vjongene]

Ha, I survived without any real consideration or stress and my wife and I both learned from it. That's all I could ever ask for,....except maybe a bright neon pull cord that flashes.

Sean

A friend of mine has attached a fluo golf ball to his pull dump. You'll never miss that one...

 

[vjongene]

I cant envisage any underwater situation that would be best solved by ditching my weights.

Here is one:

I was diving off a RIB, and after getting on the boat with my gear I opened my tank valve and checked my reg. It took a while to get to the dive site. When we got there, I kitted up and back-rolled into the water. Trying to take my first breath I realized that one of the crew had closed my tank valve, probably for safety reasons. My BC was empty, because we had decided to meet with my buddies at 3 m. So I was sinking, and had no air. I kicked really hard and managed to get back to the surface. Had I not, the only way to save my life would have been to ditch my weight belt.

Yes, I know, I made several stupid mistakes, but who can say they never did?

 

[Diver0001]

I can see how small issues could create problems. My wife and I just got back from the BVIs and while there did our AOW. The diving was great and uneventful except for one problem.

On our forth dive after a 1hr si I had a problem with my bc. We had just switched tanks and suited up on a rather cramped rib. We did our buddy checks, sat on the sides of the rib and did our back rolls into the water from opposite sides of the boat.

As soon as I hit the water I thankfully realized I had an issue. I did not have the bouyancy I expected from a half full bc. Apparently, my shoulder dump pull had wrapped itseft around my shoulder strap and had seated inself in a position that looked correct to myself, buddy and instructor. When I entered the water the stress on the shoulder strap combined with the surrounding water pressure activated the dump. Luckily, I was properly weighted, had my reg in and was close enough to the rib to grab hold and evaluate the problem. It still took me about 30 sec's to figure it out, when I added air to my bc all I could hear was air escaping from somewhere behind me. Anyways, finally clued in and fixed the snag, while our instructor monitored the issue.

Easy to miss and no one's fault. It looked right and did not release while I was balanced on the side of the rib. Lesson learned....make special note of placement of pull dumps and from now on backward rolls from a rib or dingy will always be on the same side as my buddy if possible, regardless of the watchful eyes of others.

Good work Sean!

R..

 

[String]

I was diving off a RIB, and after getting on the boat with my gear I opened my tank valve and checked my reg. It took a while to get to the dive site. When we got there, I kitted up and back-rolled into the water. Trying to take my first breath I realized that one of the crew had closed my tank valve, probably for safety reasons. My BC was empty, because we had decided to meet with my buddies at 3 m. So I was sinking, and had no air. I kicked really hard and managed to get back to the surface. Had I not, the only way to save my life would have been to ditch my weight belt.Yes, I know, I made several stupid mistakes, but who can say they never did?

Again firstly what about the self check and buddy check before entering ? Air-on is pretty much a standard no matter how many other checks are missed. Another issue here is that crews dont ever touch someones kit (and certainly with the club we dont HAVE crew!). Secondly wearing a drysuit gives more than enough buoyancy from trapped air that rolling in with an empty BC you still float on the surface until you force air out of the thing.
Another issue if assuming single tanks is you arent too heavy to swim up against the weight even with limited buoyancy.

Nope. Still think weight jettisoning is more dangerous than making them hard to ditch.

 

[miketsp]

Another issue if assuming single tanks is you arent too heavy to swim up against the weight even with limited buoyancy.

It's not that long ago that correct ascent procedure when diving with single cylinders WAS to empty the BC before ascent to avoid any risk of out of control ascents as the BC expanded.
Neutral ascents are recent practice (for somebody who first dived 30+ years ago).

 

[FreeFloat]

...even in the event that you fix the problem and decide to continue the dive, you can send someone down to retrieve it. I believe the going rate for divemaster weightbelt retreival is one frosty cold beer per weight. Cheap at the price.

Actually when I went through OW the instructor said that if a diver ever needed to ditch their weightbelt for a real reason (ie not in training) to save themselves, that diver gets a round or two bought for him...........

 

[crispos]

I still maintain there are other solutions. The first issue is, he was solo. Second issue if his reg failed what happened to his octopus ? Was it his first stage? If solo diving why no redundant air source ? Solo diving on one cylinder is crazy. Secondly why was he so heavily weighted and non neutral that a gentle fin up wouldnt start a controlled ascent (he WAS neutral at the time wasnt he?....)

Onto the last bit, casualties on the bottom with NO air in the tank and weights still on could possibly have ditched their weights but on the bottom WITH air hints that something else happened and there was no immediate rush to surface.

I still cant see any situation what so ever where i could possibly imagine dumping my weight as the best course of action for any problem what so ever.

Like I said, ask him. PADI standards require us to teach buoyant ascent as THE last choice measure to an out of air situations. (Page 159 of the PADI Open Water Diver Manual).

It should be noted that we simulate weight belt or weight system ditch on the pool deck, and on the surface, in confined water. It is against standards to actually perform weight belt ditches from the bottom and actually do buoyant ascents, either in confined or open water, for the risks/reasons you mentioned.

Basically, you were rewriting the BASIC Open Water Diver standards when you made your statement. Your statement is obviously more applicable for an experienced diver that knows about redundency, but even then, stuff happens under water (entanglement?) and I can cite many examples of a pro diver being criticized for not making a distressed diver buoyant underwater, and also not recovering an unresponsive diver from depth, because they were "Too Heavy". They are supposed to keep the head back and airway open on ascent.

The fact that Dr. Bill MAY have made mistakes (I don't know, and I doubt his octopus was working if he had to go buoyant) does not remove the possibility that this kind of thing DOES happen. Saying that it should not happen does not remove the fact that divers are found on the bottom. I might add that alot of divers tie or hide their belts under their BCD's.

If some newbie diver reads your post and goes and kills themselves, by not ditching, you better be absolutely sure your opinion is correct and applies to all possible situations.

If they ditch and embolize after taking my class, I will refer to what I taught as being consistent with PADI standards, and then someone can prove whether it was the correct strategy.

I teach weight ditch as a emergency last resort measure to Basic Scuba Diver students, for use on the surface and at depth, either on themeslves or a victim, with the usual "last resort" caveats. I stress that the buddy should always be within a couple of fin kicks away, as an octopus is the preferred alternative to an out or even low on air situation.

If you are right, I want to be convinced of it. SO I can write PADI and NAUI. But I think you are talking about experienced divers never ditching because they have redundant systems.