lebenstein
Registered
You mentioned only having 12 dives. How is it that you are certified as AOW with only this few of dives? I am curious to know which agency certified you.
My dive incident
- Thread starter aozger
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Reg Braithwaite
Contributor
Up here in Ontario, when you make a reservation all of the operations I've dealt with ask about your experience. They will not allow you to do certain dives without the appropriate experience. They will try to arrange a buddy for you, but they are clear that if you cannot hook up with an insta-buddy you will not go diving.
When I first dived in Tobermory, I was grilled about relevant experience. They were manifestly uninterested in my tropical diving experience: They wanted to know how many cold water dives I had done, how many dry suit dives I had done, how many cold and deep dives I had done, and so forth.
I was going for a week and they made sure that the first few days were on easy wrecks so that I could get used to the diving there and they could observe my progress before allowing me to try some of the more challenging sites.
I honestly cannot imagine them allowing a diver with just thirteen official dives (4 OW checkouts + 5 AOW adventure dives + 4 of something else) going any deeper than 40' to start. As I ranted before, the OP has certain responsibilities. Nothing excuses him from this. But the dive operation and the DM also have responsibilities and I think it is possible to gently chide the OP while simultaneously questioning their decision to allow him to attempt that dive.
jstamets
Contributor
Well this was asked before, but then again, this is 16 pages long!
PADI. There is no requirement other than OW to continue with AOW. I think I will start another thread to discuss this, as I fall into this AOW without any dives category as well.
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I'm writing in a friendly way.
I know that you are a new member, so you may not be familiar with Scuba Board Etiquette. Before replying - it's best to read the whole thing!!!
And - Welcome to Scuba Board!!!
I'm new here but im gonna chime in anyway, I think there are alot of new divers who complete a class head south hit the dive shops buy all the cool new dive gear and there first time in the water with it is on a dive boat.
ancientdiver
Registered
Stay in your comfort limits, no matter what others are doing. I have swam back to the boat more than once while everyone else dropped, for similar issues. Just last year in Keys I had a DM on the boat screaming at me to stay in the water and fix my mask strap in the water. Well phuck him! I can't see near vision worth squat without my glasses, so I sure as hell can't see good enough to fix a mask strap. My glasses were on the boat. I just calmly told my son to stay with me, because we were headed back to the boat. I fixed the strap, then we joined the dive. I told my son the DM was a prick and we would not be on that boat again, and we haven't been. I still had an air card with the operator, but hey, its only money, and I won't dive with a dickhead no matter what. They tend to get folks killed, it just hasn't happened to them yet. If a dive starts out bad, it is only going to get worse - always. You did not make the right call, getting more weight, by getting back on the boat. Don't beat yourself up. You learned a lot, and I bet you will never submerge again unless your buoyany is perfect. Many experienced DMs carry a few extra pounds with them just for this reason - especailly when they know they have a new diver in the group. IMO dude is a double jerk. However, you are always responsble for your own dive. Don't quit. Learn from it. check lists, plan the dive, dive the plan, and gradually build your experience base. There are good shallow dives in West Palm, but there is always a current rippin', so a drift dive at 100 feet would not have been a good choice for a low time diver. My sons have about 30 dives, and I don't think they are ready for Gulf Stream drift diving just yet. What others have said is on target - get your butt on down do Pennekamp and burn some air between 20 and 30 feet. Deep dives are over rated anyway. There is no color, it's colder, and you are a lot farther from the surface for a emergency ascent. I have dove in more places around the world than most, and 40 to 60 feet is where I like to be most times - longer bottom times, less worries, more colors to see, last one out of the water. I don't do a deep dive unless it is really something special to see. There are great drift dives at 60-70 feet in the West Palm area. Stay safe and enjoy. Will
dktexas54
Contributor
Glad you are ok. My question is who was your buddy? The DM? or were you paired with someone else? If the DM was your buddy, he let you down by continuing down. The DM should have watched you decend. If he had, he would have noticed you were having problems. Was someone on the boat watching you all descend? If so, you should have inflated your BC, signaled the boat and informed them of your situation. "Stop, Think, Plan, Act!" These simple words will apply in all situations. Diving is supposed to be fun!! There is no race or keeping up with the Jones's in diving. Racing to keep up, getting in a hurry, letting peer pressure affect your decision making, not using your gut feeling will get you into trouble. I would have swam back to the boat, got back up, and waited for the next dive. Good Luck and keep diving. Have fun!!
kelly7552
Contributor
I have about 75 dives under my belt in 5 years of diving. When I had 5-19 dives, I had a number of "experienced" based lessons that reinforced my understanding of concepts that are taught by good instructors. I heard check your equipment over and over, but it took a dive on a charter boat in maui, where the operator asked how much weight I wanted, I answered (what ever weight I had written into my dive log) and he said, "OK to save everyone time, I set up your equipment". Cool, I thought. When I came up from my dive I found weights in my zippered BC pocket, not in the integrated pouches. Had I needed to drop weights in a panic, I would have pull two empty pouches. Lesson learned. Or jumping from a boat with an uninflated BC, can you say goes down fast? Or shutting off your tank to save air until you get in the water due to lots of people waiting to jump in, better remember to turn the damned air back on...
At least if you start out with 60 foot depth floor for your first 20 or so dives, you less likely to get into real trouble.
One issue not being discussed here is the new divers assumption that if someone sells it, it ought to be safe. What all of us learn is boat operations and dive operations come in all varieties, this wasn't taught in OW or AOW. Maybe having real world examples in these classes of what to expect from a dive operation would go a long way in making students understand the actual risks.
At least if you start out with 60 foot depth floor for your first 20 or so dives, you less likely to get into real trouble.
One issue not being discussed here is the new divers assumption that if someone sells it, it ought to be safe. What all of us learn is boat operations and dive operations come in all varieties, this wasn't taught in OW or AOW. Maybe having real world examples in these classes of what to expect from a dive operation would go a long way in making students understand the actual risks.
aozger,
I have come into this late, and can't face reading 13 pages, but it has sparked a little itch that I just have to scratch. This is the attitude of modern day US (and Oz). I think it's a product of training too many lawyers. Peolpe, generally, now refuse to take responsibility for themselves and if something goes wrong feel that someone else has to be found accountable. This is spoiling the world for those of us who do take responsibility for our own actions (and suffer the consequences when we make the wrong call). I remember rafting the Grand Canyon over 14 days, and when the guide explained that communication was by VHF to overflying aircraft, who would relay the message for us, an American on the boat said, "they would not let us come here if that was the case". Imagine if that beautifull landscape was ruined with a payphone on every bend and paramedics in jet boats patrolling up and down.
Everytime a new law or regulation is passed because of some misguided or frivolous lawsuit or complaint, it costs us all in higher fees for the service, and in restriction of personal freedom. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest.
You are an advanced OWD, the whole situation is of your own personal making, and no-one else is responsible. With that ticket I would be hugely offended if some officious DM told me I could not do the dive I wanted to do,(provided it was within the scope of AOWD). You were unhappy with 3 dives for some reason = don't do the dive, you are not nitrox trained = don't do the dive, you were under weighted = return to boat and get more weight (missing the first dive would have given you the 2 dive package that you wanted). The only thing that was apparently not your fault was that you were not assigned a buddy, who should have surfaced with you, after you signalled to him/her that you were aborting the dive, to pick up more weight.
In conclusion life, in general, is about risk management, and so is sport, if you personally don't like the risk, make the call yourself, don't rely on a total stranger to make the call for you either way. (If big brother says it's OK then it must be OK). As a competent adult human being make you own decisions, please, and live with the consequences.
I have come into this late, and can't face reading 13 pages, but it has sparked a little itch that I just have to scratch. This is the attitude of modern day US (and Oz). I think it's a product of training too many lawyers. Peolpe, generally, now refuse to take responsibility for themselves and if something goes wrong feel that someone else has to be found accountable. This is spoiling the world for those of us who do take responsibility for our own actions (and suffer the consequences when we make the wrong call). I remember rafting the Grand Canyon over 14 days, and when the guide explained that communication was by VHF to overflying aircraft, who would relay the message for us, an American on the boat said, "they would not let us come here if that was the case". Imagine if that beautifull landscape was ruined with a payphone on every bend and paramedics in jet boats patrolling up and down.
Everytime a new law or regulation is passed because of some misguided or frivolous lawsuit or complaint, it costs us all in higher fees for the service, and in restriction of personal freedom. Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest.
You are an advanced OWD, the whole situation is of your own personal making, and no-one else is responsible. With that ticket I would be hugely offended if some officious DM told me I could not do the dive I wanted to do,(provided it was within the scope of AOWD). You were unhappy with 3 dives for some reason = don't do the dive, you are not nitrox trained = don't do the dive, you were under weighted = return to boat and get more weight (missing the first dive would have given you the 2 dive package that you wanted). The only thing that was apparently not your fault was that you were not assigned a buddy, who should have surfaced with you, after you signalled to him/her that you were aborting the dive, to pick up more weight.
In conclusion life, in general, is about risk management, and so is sport, if you personally don't like the risk, make the call yourself, don't rely on a total stranger to make the call for you either way. (If big brother says it's OK then it must be OK). As a competent adult human being make you own decisions, please, and live with the consequences.
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