MSDT Prep Questions

[Ben_3]

I found it, still don’t understand why you need 25 certs before applying to teach a specialty. I guess it’s the way it is..

 

[ChuckP]

I found it, still don’t understand why you need 25 certs before applying to teach a specialty. I guess it’s the way it is..

You need 25 certs to self certify that you can teach the specialty, they want you to have experience otherwise before that, an instructor must certify you to teach the specialty

 

[Diving Dubai]

I found it, still don’t understand why you need 25 certs before applying to teach a specialty. I guess it’s the way it is..

Because you need to be MSDT - which is 25 certs PLUS 5(/) specialties already - taught by CD

Remember IDC/IE in not representative of real world teaching. Those first 25 certs are where you really do learn how to teach, and go from "rabbit in the headlights" with your first solo course, to someone who has figured out the basics of teaching.

 

[jlcnuke]

So dive the table or the computer?
I didnt plan the dive, it was a guided dive and from the school. The dive briefing on the boat never gives you depth or time at depth, or time at the site to allow you to do any dive planning. It was get on the boat and we are going to this site, dont know which ball they are connecting to until they get there. Then its get in, follow the guide, do air checks and then come back up.
For shallow depths, like most of their dives are, it just a timed dive. 45 minutes in the water then back on the boat.
I was just going back into my log book and filling in some notes. Decided to look at the tables and compare to what the computer showed. The computer had a safety stop for 3 minutes (which is always for that depth) not 8 or 15 so had no reason to believe anything was wrong.
Just trying to figure out where I went wrong and how to correct the action.
If the computer is always making adjustments and still shows everything with in limits then how are you supposed to dive? Like your taught by the tables or just let the computer deal with it?

I was just reading over this thread and wanted to give my 2 cents on what I think you may be having some issue with on this post.

First, you will often find that many places will take you on dives they "do all the time", with someone leading the dive and planning it etc. They'll often expect you to blindly follow them, and most newer divers will. With a dive computer, you have a great piece of technology constantly doing calculations to determine what you're doing and comparing it to the information it has, to tell you what is "probably" safe for you and when you should do "something different" than normal (i.e. if you exceed the calculated NDLs). You may someday find yourself in a position where your air supply, your computer's indication, or some other reason means that the dive guide's instructions are no longer the primary focus for you. You are always responsible for you. Try to communicate whatever the information is if you can, but always keep yourself as safe as reasonable with the information you have available.

Enough about dive planning on guided dives though for now, let's talk about computers vs tables vs real life.

Computers and tables are all based on calculations and observations of OTHER people. They tell you what is "probably safe" based on the data they have. They don't have any data about what is happening in your body. Almost always, tables will be more conservative than computers because you're probably not doing a dive that has the profile a table assumes it to have (unless you start planning multi-level dives with tables and a LOT of different levels per dive). Tables base assumption is you go to max depth at a set descent rate, then you stay there the whole dive, then you come up to a set depth for a safety stop or deco stop and then ascend. There is no gradual ascent, you don't go from 100 to 80 for a bit to 60 for a bit to 40 for a while to 30 for a bit, then to your safety stop. The computer sees all those depths, and how long you are at each, and it uses it's calculation to give you a more accurate indication of what your dive profile means for your max time underwater.

Now, that being said, here's a fun fact. You can wake up this Saturday and go do a dive you did last Saturday morning and end up in a chamber despite having been perfectly fine doing that dive last Saturday. Not because you did something different on the dive. Not because there was a different set of dives before/after that (they could be the only two dives you did in the past month). Your body is a complex machine and any number of things can significantly influence how it responds to the exact same conditions (or in this case dives).

For most people, a dive that is within limits they've never had an issue with (or an issue with similar dives) usually means there was an factor outside of the dive that was different this time. Higher stress, cold temperatures, different respiration rates, dehydration (HUGE, MASSIVE one that often affects people as I understand it), alcohol use, and any number of other factors can all increase your susceptibility to DCS. If you do 90+ dives with a computer, of varying depths etc, without any issue, then get bent on a dive where you didn't exceed the calculated limits from the same computer, the odds are that some other factor (dehydration, stress, etc) was why things didn't work out well that ime.

I am curious though, you said the symptoms were when you woke up the next day? Not that day or the evening after the dives, but the following day? While I understand that's not unheard of, I think it's pretty rare for symptoms to wait so long to manifest. I'd be sure to note that when talking to your next doctor. Also, I didn't see it mentioned, but I'd be sure to work with a doctor who's trained in hyperbaric medicine for your follow ups and not just a general practicioner. If you're not sure where to find one, contact DAN (on their non-emergency line or via email) and they can get you a list for your area.

 

[Stephen McCallister]

Yep talked to DAN about it all. Even got the numbers for hyerbaric medicine doctors but none of them actually work with decompression or anything dive related. Mostly wound care. I did find one in the area but its on post so i cant go see him. More home work for another day.

One thing the rep from DAN did state is that you can do the same dive 100 times and never have an issue but the 101st dive, something gos wrong. Also the dive computer doesnt get DCS or any thing else but you do.

The folks over at DAN were nice about everything and just asked alot of questions and made sure they had all of the information. Sent them all the dives that I did for that week.

There were two dives, both in the morning, two days in a row where i exceeded the decompression limits and should have done a 15 minute deco stop and not dived for 24 hours. But I did 3 more dives each day and the computer didnt lock me out of it and only had me do a 3 minute safety stop. So plan the dive and dive the plan and use the computer for back up. After the 2 days of the deep dives and multiple dives i had 2 shallow dives in the morning and called it quits because I had the dive numbers. That night is when the symptoms hit. Went to bed and slept it off. Woke up the next morning and the symptoms hit me again.

Everything is ok now and I am doing much better. I have decided on a different school where the DM and IDC course is 5 weeks so its not rushed and actually get hands on, usually there are only 4 to 5 DM's in the class verses 10.

 

[tursiops]

Because you need to be MSDT

That was once true, I think, but certainly is no more. You do NOT need to be MSDT....just have 25 certs. Then you can self certify.

 

[ChuckP]

There were two dives, both in the morning, two days in a row where i exceeded the decompression limits and should have done a 15 minute deco stop and not dived for 24 hours. But I did 3 more dives each day and the computer didnt lock me out of it and only had me do a 3 minute safety stop

This will sound harsh but between your statements here, earlier in this thread and PM’s - You really need to take at least one step backwards and understand what you are doing.

It is impossible to skip a 15 minute deco stop with the computer you have and it not lock you out if it was in dive mode and it will only give you deco stops in dive mode.

 

[Stephen McCallister]

this is true. I was wondering about all of that because I wanted to pick up several specialties in the MDST course but one instructor stopped me and told me to just pick up 5 then get your 25 certifications then you can self certify all of the rest that you want to teach.

The only issue with that is some of them it would be nice to have some one that is certified in them to teach them instead of me just reading a book and doing a dive then signing my self off on them. But thats just my take on it based on what i have found out so please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[tursiops]

It is impossible to skip a 15 minute deco stop with the computer you have and it not lock you out if it was in dive mode and it will only give you deco stops in dive mode.

I think he was diving tables....and had exceeded his NDL by more than 5 mins, which would require a 15 SS and stay out of the water for 24h. His computer thought he was fine, so presumably he did not spend all of his BT on the bottom....

 

[Stephen McCallister]

This will sound harsh but between your statements here, earlier in this thread and PM’s - You really need to take at least one step backwards and understand what you are doing.

It is impossible to skip a 15 minute deco stop with the computer you have and it not lock you out if it was in dive mode and it will only give you deco stops in dive mode.

Ok then I want you to tell me how my computer did not lock me out and how it allowed me to continue diving, only flagged me to do 3 minute safety stops for all 4 dives on one day and only 2 safety stops on the morning dives the next day but not the afternoon dives. The computer did not lock me out at any time.

And yes it was in dive mode because it logged the dives, and I double checked it to make sure it was.

Since you are going to be that guy why dont you send me a dive computer that will do all of the things that you say that mine is supposed to do and hasnt done.