Morrison Springs - Sunday 1/17/10

[SuPrBuGmAn]

A AOW diver can go into overhead obstruction situations as long as the overall distance to the surface does not exceed 130 feet and the "opening" is not obscured at that distance.

You have a serious misunderstanding of your certification limits.

I do not dive side mounts, I don't have a canister light, but, I have dove Morrison many times and enjoy it. And, guess what, I went into the cavern and looked around, not far, but, I went in, it requires no more skills than a shallow wreck penetration.

I've done it before, therefor nothing bad could ever happen while doing it again? I've done it, therefor anyone should be able to do it(that doesn't say much for your skill level I suppose)? I've done it before, and I'm so uninformed that I would consider a 90' deep cavern thats allows 200' penetration to have the same skill requirements as a shallow wreck penetration?

Yes, surely I'm the one making assumptions.

I do not plan to get cave certified, I have no interest. But, I assure you my skills allow me to safely penetrate a spring. And, I guarantee you my buoyancy control and trim will not muck it up for you trained cavern divers.
Yes, bugman is making alot of assumptions. You do not have to be cave certified to enjoy florida spring diving.

There's a huge difference between spring diving and cave diving.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I did not see anything in the OP that led me to believe that they had done a penetration.



Agreed on the first, but not on the second. In the context of the entire post, I understood that he was talking about the cone of clear water in the area adjacent to the spring's mouth. I could see someone else reading it a different way, but it's jumping to conclusions to assume they did a cave/cavern dive from that statement.

True, and many untrained, unknowing divers could easily jump to that conclusion. I find it better to err on the side of safety.

PADI has an AOW prerequisite course called "Cavern Diver". I didn't take the class so I can't give any insights into what is included and what is not, but I would guess that someone who was AOW through PADI could also be considered a "Cavern Diver" if they in fact took that course.

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a PADI instructor and the only prerequisite for the AOW course is an OW certification. AOW is a prerequisite for PADI's cavern course. Maybe you read/heard it incorrectly?

The assumption was that there was a cave/cavern dive executed. I certainly don't advocate untrained divers entering caves or caverns, but the dive police need to make sure that someone's speeding before they start issuing tickets.

I don't see that anyone was "issuing tickets." Aqua Camp made these statements:

This is not for open water students. I / we left the class at the motel and 2 advanced guys and a DM and I went.

This, along with some of the other statements, can easily lead someone to believe they were doing a dive in the overhead. I agree it's not clear cut, but too many people, including people I know, have died in caves in the past few years, and they were trained! So I am going to remain passionate about this subject and make my feelings known.

That said, it's always a good thing to talk about safety

I agree completely!

 

[Hetland]

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a PADI instructor and the only prerequisite for the AOW course is an OW certification. AOW is a prerequisite for PADI's cavern course. Maybe you read/heard it incorrectly?

You are correct on the PADI issue. I misread the flow chart located here: http://www.padi.com/scuba/uploadedImages/Padi_Courses/getimage.jpg
My apologies.

However, I have a buddy who tells me that one of the specialty courses he took in completing his AOW cert was intro to cavern. I did not know the agency (though I knew it couldn't be SDI/TDI where all my courses are through), so I assumed it was PADI (based on it's market coverage) and then saw what I wanted to see on the flow chart above without reviewing it properly.

I'll ask my buddy about the class and agency in case I misunderstood him as well.

 

[b1draper]

Wow, all this happened from me asking about the conditions. I've been to Morrison a bunch of times, however to me it's not worth the effort to dive morrison when it's zero vis. The reason I was looking at going to Morrison or Jackson Blue was to do some video; work on recording a couple episodes of my dive series. In 2009 90% of the dives I planned got canceled due to weather or people canceling. The few dives I got in for 2009 wern't worth editing the video for release. I had everything from tannic water to thermoclines that wiped out vis. Granted in these conditions the sites were "fun" to dive but not worth the time recording the video.

I'll try to get another trip together in the near future (go diving on a week day if I have to).

 

[Dive-aholic]

You are correct on the PADI issue. I misread the flow chart located here: http://www.padi.com/scuba/uploadedImages/Padi_Courses/getimage.jpg
My apologies.

However, I have a buddy who tells me that one of the specialty courses he took in completing his AOW cert was intro to cavern. I did not know the agency (though I knew it couldn't be SDI/TDI where all my courses are through), so I assumed it was PADI (based on it's market coverage) and then saw what I wanted to see on the flow chart above without reviewing it properly.

I'll ask my buddy about the class and agency in case I misunderstood him as well.

If your buddy did his AOW through PADI and did a cavern dive then his instructor violated standards. He should not be diving in caverns without the full course.

 

[Hetland]

If your buddy did his AOW through PADI and did a cavern dive then his instructor violated standards. He should not be diving in caverns without the full course.

I only assumed it was PADI because of market coverage, not because he told me or I saw his card. I'll ask him.

And the guy has as much interest now in diving caverns as I have in eating live scorpions. Fully certified or not, it's not his thing.

 

[scubadog1969]

My skills are just fine i am not a cave diver so my safety skills are first anyone not cave certified shouldn't be going into caves . Safety should be first on anyones mind and if your not certified for cave diving then you shouldn't be in a cave that is not using very good safety .

 

[Kenny P.]

My dear friend, mentor, cavediving buddy, IT, Steve Parker has a saying about this kind of discussion. "They don't know what they don't know". Seems very fitting right now! Without the proper training for the environment being dived, a lot can be overlooked, as per Parker's simple saying.
Be careful out there!
Thanks to all for your honest comments.
Bless,
Kenny P.

 

[Upstate Scuba OWI]

Went to morrison today 1-28-10 same tannic water and the ramp leading to the far floating dock is still under water from the overflow in the basin.