Morphos Pro (M) or Seaquest Balance (ML)

[jhelmuth]

DeepBlueTech,

I agree that there are many point about a BP and wing(s) that are great. For that matter, I've already decided that, should I buy another BC, I will probably go with a BP and wing because of the likelyhood that I'll advance my diving within the forseeable future. Heck, that might be the reason I do buy another. I would tell you that I won't give up my Balance because it is a good system for me. I can get terrific trim in the water with it, and it provides all the lift I need diving a single tank. If I could have done it over again, I'd probably still choose the Balance (for comfort and features), but I'd never tell anyone that it is the best or only choice. Both choices have their merits and should be selected on those and the users needs.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Well here was what I found...
Oxycheq 30# wing $240 (agree)
FredT Al BP $ 65 (agree - Oxycheq's were $130)
STA $ 59 (COVCI - LP Oxycheq's $89)
Harness Kit $ 40 (agree)
Add..
Cam strap $20
Weight belt as a replacement for integrated weight pockets $10
(and you'll still not have a pocket - but no big deal since most of us don't use it)

Total $434 to compare equivelant.

Seaquest Balance $300 (LP - I paid $345 at my LDS)

Even if we just agree with your figures (and I will for arguments sake), the 36lb SeaQuest Balance is significantly cheaper, has pockets if necessary, and has slightly more lift. So I stand pat on my earlier reply.

PS - I still think BP and wings are superior in many cases (mostly non-rec diving where the need to switch to doubles, or in minimalist configurations). But you can't deny that the Balance is not a good choice for many cases as well.

The new SQ Balance with SL is $395 on LP right now. Not to nitpic or anything... but if you bought this thru an LDS, a Seaquest dealer would charge close to $600 due to pricing constraints. A little thing called Minimum Retail Pricing... (Lets not argue about that though)

But, here is what I paid for my slightly used backplate and new wing setup:

Oxycheq 45# wing-- Lets just say it was $240 (to keep things easy)
SLightly used FredT AL BP -- $45
SLightly used FredT 2 piece LT STA -- $25
2 Cambands -- $20
Harness system --$40

So, my total was $370. And my pocket is on my drysuit. Also, everyone has a weight belt. But I dont think price is the most important thing here...

ABility to maintain trim and balance perfectly underwater: priceless...

 

[jhelmuth]

The new SQ Balance with SL is $395 on LP right now. Not to nitpic or anything... but if you bought this thru an LDS, a Seaquest dealer would charge close to $600 due to pricing constraints. A little thing called Minimum Retail Pricing... (Lets not argue about that though)

But, here is what I paid for my slightly used backplate and new wing setup:

Oxycheq 45# wing-- Lets just say it was $240 (to keep things easy)
SLightly used FredT AL BP -- $45
SLightly used FredT 2 piece LT STA -- $25
2 Cambands -- $20
Harness system --$40

So, my total was $370. And my pocket is on my drysuit. Also, everyone has a weight belt. But I dont think price is the most important thing here...

ABility to maintain trim and balance perfectly underwater: priceless...

Lub, your're comparing used to new. Can you honestly say that this is a fair comparison. Even so, the new Balance is $395 so it is only slightly cheaper than the prior post for a new BP/Wing rig (which was as stated in my earlier post). If you can comprehend my posts, you'll notice that I'm not against a BP/wing rig. But it is NOT less expensive. Fairly stated, they are only slightly more expensive. That doesn't make them a bad choice. In fact, it makes them a good choice if that's what you need. If you don't want to conceed that choice is good and that a rec BC like the Balance can be a better choice, then the issue is with your inflexability and closed mindedness. From my perspecive, you're making a feable attempt to justify that a BP/wing is less expensive when it is not. If I find a "used" price on a Balance, I'll post to make the "fair" comparrison.

 

[TechBlue]

Chuck,

We have a man with a mission here, SUCNIP I hope we gave you enough information to make an educated choice, I guess the last point I should make is a quote from JHELMUTH "I agree that there are many point about a BP and wing(s) that are great. For that matter, I've already decided that, should I buy another BC, I will probably go with a BP and wing because of the likelyhood that I'll advance my diving within the forseeable future. Heck, that might be the reason I do buy another" So pretty much what he said is if he should decide to advance his diving level he would choose a BP/wing setup, I rest my case.

Chris

 

[jhelmuth]

Lub and Deep,

My apologies for comming off like a man on a mission. I did recommend to SUCNIP that he check out the BP/wing becuase I think it might be the right thing for him. My point has been that rec BC's aren't bad choices and I do have some bias against those who would propose that a BP and wing is the ONLY logical choice. So if I came off too harsh, that was not my intent. I would just like to see people be more honest and un-biased in suggesting good choices for those who ask for advice.

 

[TechBlue]

Jhelmuth,

I'm not going to flog this to death, but if you go back to my first post it was offered as a suggestion, whatever SUCNIP decides to do his entirely up to him I have no idea what his future goals are for diving but if he should be planning to reach a more advanced level he will be following the path of many misinformed rec students in buying the balance BCD. He could save himself a nice piece of change that could be better spent on additional useful equipment. That is really the bottom line not how good or bad the Balance is. It seems that you haven't made the transition yet so I don't know how you feel qualified to discuss which is better. You may want to follow some of this advice and then let us know how you feel. We dive the same config wether it be cave, wreck or a nice warm blue water dive and it works for all of them, the Balance does not. Yes I am biased because like most people on this list I have a closet full of crap I wouldn't give away and it is with this in mind that I offer advice.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Lub and Deep,

My apologies for comming off like a man on a mission. I did recommend to SUCNIP that he check out the BP/wing becuase I think it might be the right thing for him. My point has been that rec BC's aren't bad choices and I do have some bias against those who would propose that a BP and wing is the ONLY logical choice. So if I came off too harsh, that was not my intent. I would just like to see people be more honest and un-biased in suggesting good choices for those who ask for advice.

First of all, its LUBOLD. Thank you. Secondly, why are you so hell bent on showing that the Balance is cheaper than a BP&W??? I dont care. And, I assume that alot of people dont care. As evidenced by the popularity of BP&W on this board, and others...
Secondly, your price for the Balance came from LP. If LP had some prices up on their website for alum BP and harnesses, we might be able to compare apples to apples. But, we cant. Also, just because a Ford Focus costs less than a BMW doesnt mean that everyone goes out and buys a Ford Focus. Price is not a good determination for the quality of a product. Actually, a good argument might be fought that the lower the price of a product, the lower the quality (in some cases)!!!!!!

AND, I find it funny that you are asking for people to be unbiased, and you are completely biased towards the Balance. No one was saying that BP&W's are the ONLY logical choice, but rather a CHOICE. If you recall my earlier posts, I said that I liked the Balance, and actually used one for a few years.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Lub, your're comparing used to new. Can you honestly say that this is a fair comparison. Even so, the new Balance is $395 so it is only slightly cheaper than the prior post for a new BP/Wing rig (which was as stated in my earlier post). If you can comprehend my posts, you'll notice that I'm not against a BP/wing rig. But it is NOT less expensive. Fairly stated, they are only slightly more expensive. That doesn't make them a bad choice. In fact, it makes them a good choice if that's what you need. If you don't want to conceed that choice is good and that a rec BC like the Balance can be a better choice, then the issue is with your inflexability and closed mindedness. From my perspecive, you're making a feable attempt to justify that a BP/wing is less expensive when it is not. If I find a "used" price on a Balance, I'll post to make the "fair" comparrison.

First of all, I wasnt tryin to compare. I was just showing what I paid for a used BP and STA. BTW, the difference between new and used for those items is $45. SO, that would have made it $415 (wing, BP, harness, STA, cambands). $20 difference between what LP sells the Balance SL for, and what someone could get the BP&W for.

I think its funny that you said in a earlier post that you think BP&W are superior in many instances, but you make a big deal about spending more money on a superior product.

I love how you are wanting us to "conceed" to things. I wont...

I also believe that I made my point that a BP&W can be inexpensive...

HOWEVER, The individual needs to decide for themselves what is good for the diving they are doing. Maybe this guy would be totally happy in a little purple and blue jacket style BC.

 

[jhelmuth]

Jhelmuth,

I'm not going to flog this to death, but if you go back to my first post it was offered as a suggestion, whatever SUCNIP decides to do his entirely up to him I have no idea what his future goals are for diving but if he should be planning to reach a more advanced level he will be following the path of many misinformed rec students in buying the balance BCD. He could save himself a nice piece of change that could be better spent on additional useful equipment. That is really the bottom line not how good or bad the Balance is. It seems that you haven't made the transition yet so I don't know how you feel qualified to discuss which is better. You may want to follow some of this advice and then let us know how you feel. We dive the same config wether it be cave, wreck or a nice warm blue water dive and it works for all of them, the Balance does not. Yes I am biased because like most people on this list I have a closet full of crap I wouldn't give away and it is with this in mind that I offer advice.

This will be my last reply because it does not make sense making this into something more than it should be. I feel we are saying the same thing, but I disagree with the countless statements that BP and wing are cheaper (usually stated as quite a bit cheaper) than rec BC's.
If you re-read my original post, I recommend that he (and anyone for that matter) try both rec and BP/W types for themselves. I never claimed that one was better than another, nor did I claim to be qualified to do so. I really do believe that you would also want him to consider both and select the one that he felt gave him the best function and met his needs, but I did not agree with the pricing logic you cited. And yes, I will likely go to a BP/W combo once that makes more sense to me. Right now, the only reason I would buy it is so that I could make a fair comparrison, or to be a member of the BP/W group. Since neither are important to me, I'll wait until I advance my diving requirements before making that purchase.
Regarding the "crap" you've owned. I would not put the Balance BC in the catagory of "crap". Even if I really loved the BP/W once I got it. I could not be dis-honest and call the Balance crap. I might not like it as well, but by relegating it to "crap", I'd be dishonest about it's value. I think some people do this as justification for what they own and don't really mean it so literally. I'm sorry if you've mis-read anything I've posted, but I also realize that this form of communication lends that to the dialogue and I understand how that can happen.
Lastly, I do want to say that I do respect you as a person and a diver. I wish you well and hope that if our paths were to cross that I could buy you a beer (or whatever beverage you liked) and that we could have a chance to become friends. It was never my intention to be disrespectful of you or anyone else and I apologize if I came across that way.

 

[TechBlue]

Jhelmuth, I'll hold you to that! SUCNIP, out of curiosity I would like to know what your final choice ended up being, if you'd like to keep it quiet pm me.

Chris