More weight needed?

[CUunderH2O]

Hi all,

I'm diving fresh water with a 2 pc 7 mm suit, boots & gloves, AL80 @3000psi. I'm 5'6", 120 lbs. I've been told I was overweighted with 24 lb on my OW checkout dives, and have been successful with 18 lb on my latest wreck dive this weekend, which was great. However, I found on my second dive of the day (no line this time, just a drift dive off the shore), I couldn't get down without my buddy grabbing hold of me to get me past the first 5-10 ft. Does this mean I need more weight for shore dives (ones without a line going down)? I've been told I should be able to go down to 16 lb soon, but all this neoprene is making me extra buoyant. It's very frustrating trying to do a duck dive and feeling my fins flopping in mid-air, not able to get down!!! On another note, on those occasions when I go headfirst, I find my ears harder to equalize, too. Any tips on doing those shore dives, do I need more weight? Much as I like my buddy, I don't think he needs the added stress of having to help me get below the surface! I'm hoping this problem will go away when I get a 7mm full suit (one less layer of rubber), but in the meantime I'm still having this problem. out:

n.b.: I've seen the posts about formulas for figuring out your proper weight, but the numbers seem awfully low. Any ideas/tips?
Tks

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Hi all,

I'm diving fresh water with a 2 pc 7 mm suit, boots & gloves, AL80 @3000psi. I'm 5'6", 120 lbs. I've been told I was overweighted with 24 lb on my OW checkout dives, and have been successful with 18 lb on my latest wreck dive this weekend, which was great. However, I found on my second dive of the day (no line this time, just a drift dive off the shore), I couldn't get down without my buddy grabbing hold of me to get me past the first 5-10 ft. Does this mean I need more weight for shore dives (ones without a line going down)? I've been told I should be able to go down to 16 lb soon, but all this neoprene is making me extra buoyant. It's very frustrating trying to do a duck dive and feeling my fins flopping in mid-air, not able to get down!!! On another note, on those occasions when I go headfirst, I find my ears harder to equalize, too. Any tips on doing those shore dives, do I need more weight? Much as I like my buddy, I don't think he needs the added stress of having to help me get below the surface! I'm hoping this problem will go away when I get a 7mm full suit (one less layer of rubber), but in the meantime I'm still having this problem. out:

n.b.: I've seen the posts about formulas for figuring out your proper weight, but the numbers seem awfully low. Any ideas/tips?
Tks

There is no reason your weight requirements should differ unless your gear changes, you change, or the environment changes.

Because it's too difficult to equalize, I never make a headfirst descent. I descend feet first and 'trim out' a few feet below the surface. Make certain all the air is out of your BC.

You mentioned "a line". Were you pulling yourself down? If so,
unless there is a current you are pulling against, STOP.

 

[ChrisA]

Hi all,

I'm diving fresh water with a 2 pc 7 mm suit, boots & gloves, AL80 @3000psi. I'm 5'6", 120 lbs. I've been told I was overweighted with 24 lb on my OW checkout dives, and have been successful with 18 lb on my latest wreck dive this weekend, which was great. However, I found on my second dive of the day (no line this time, just a drift dive off the shore), I couldn't get down without my buddy grabbing hold of me to get me past the first 5-10 ft. Does this mean I need more weight for shore dives (ones without a line going down)? I've been told I should be able to go down to 16 lb soon, but all this neoprene is making me extra buoyant. It's very frustrating trying to do a duck dive and feeling my fins flopping in mid-air, not able to get down!!! On another note, on those occasions when I go headfirst, I find my ears harder to equalize, too. Any tips on doing those shore dives, do I need more weight? Much as I like my buddy, I don't think he needs the added stress of having to help me get below the surface! I'm hoping this problem will go away when I get a 7mm full suit (one less layer of rubber), but in the meantime I'm still having this problem. out:

n.b.: I've seen the posts about formulas for figuring out your proper weight, but the numbers seem awfully low. Any ideas/tips?
Tks

I'm surprized that you don't complain about not being able to
stay at the 15 foot saftey stop without a line. If 16lb is under weighted when your tank is full I'd expect you to be very underweighted at 500PSI. What's happenig is that below 15 or 20 feet you suit compresses and loses some of it's "float" so 16 is enough weight at depth but near the surface you need more. After you pull yourself down the line 20 feet you suit compresses and you are fine.. This is a pretty sure sign that you are under weighted.

Did you do the "standard" weight check? With a tank with 500PSI in it and a _completely_ empty BCD, you should float at eyelevel while holding in a normal breath and then slowly sink when you let all the air out of your lungs. If you can do that then you will have no problem getting down when the tank is full nor have a problem doing a saftey stop at 15 feet with 500psi in the tank.

My bet is you need maybe 3 or 4 pounds more weight (21 or 22 total) now but over time your suit will "age" and become less bouyent.
I know people who need well over 30 pounds of lead to sink in a double layer 7mm suit and AL80 in saltwater. 14mm is a _lot_ of neoprene.

 

[matt_unique]

Hi all,

I'm diving fresh water with a 2 pc 7 mm suit, boots & gloves, AL80 @3000psi. I'm 5'6", 120 lbs. I've been told I was overweighted with 24 lb on my OW checkout dives, and have been successful with 18 lb on my latest wreck dive this weekend, which was great. However, I found on my second dive of the day (no line this time, just a drift dive off the shore), I couldn't get down without my buddy grabbing hold of me to get me past the first 5-10 ft. Does this mean I need more weight for shore dives (ones without a line going down)? I've been told I should be able to go down to 16 lb soon, but all this neoprene is making me extra buoyant. It's very frustrating trying to do a duck dive and feeling my fins flopping in mid-air, not able to get down!!! On another note, on those occasions when I go headfirst, I find my ears harder to equalize, too. Any tips on doing those shore dives, do I need more weight? Much as I like my buddy, I don't think he needs the added stress of having to help me get below the surface! I'm hoping this problem will go away when I get a 7mm full suit (one less layer of rubber), but in the meantime I'm still having this problem. out:

n.b.: I've seen the posts about formulas for figuring out your proper weight, but the numbers seem awfully low. Any ideas/tips?
Tks

Chris A is right on the money. Also don't worry about it if you need more lead. You need what you need. Make sure your bc is empty when you try to descend. Do not dive if you cannot ascend on your own because there will be more trouble when you try to do your safety stop and slowly ascend from that depth.

--Matt

 

[ShakaZulu]

Stories like this really scares me.............You are not going to figure out your bouyency on this board. Get in the water and do what you were teached. There's a lot of helpfull post on this board too.

With AL80 you will be slightly over weighed at the start of the dive, since the tank becomes 4-5 pound positive at the end of the dive (otherwise you'll not be able to do the safety stop).

Note to Dive Buddies - Don't pull your buddies down.......

 

[Charlie99]

With AL80 you will be slightly over weighed at the start of the dive, since the tank becomes 4-5 pound positive at the end of the dive ......

80 cubic feet of air weighs the same, whether it's in a steel, aluminum, or fiberglass tank --- about 6 pounds.

CUunderH2O: If, when you used 18 pounds, you didn't have any trouble holding a 15' stop, and could make a controlled ascent to the surface with most of the air out of your tank, then your weighting is close.

You should be weighting yourself close to the minimum required to be able to make a good safety stop and good final ascent with a nearly empty tank.

At the beginning of the dive you will have the full 6 pounds of air in your tank, and particularly on a 2nd dive with your gear already wet, you should be able to get down easily.

Remember that you have your air supply along with you, and to start your descent you should forcefully expel as much as as possible. Taking a full breath, like one would do while freediving, just adds buoyancy and makes it difficult to descend.

 

[DandyDon]

Your profile doesn't say how many dives you've logged, so I am only guessing that you're kinda new? If so, you may find that you can drop some weight after you get more experience, more relaxed. 24 does sound like a lot of a 7 mil FJ in FW, as that's what I use in a 7 mil Jumpsuit in FW, and I'm almost twice as big as you. However, I've seen gals your size need as much as me when they were new.

In addition to everything already said - which seems right on to me.

Note to Dive Buddies - Don't pull your buddies down.......

That's right. If they can't get down on their own, they'll just have worse problems later when they miss the Safety Stop...

 

[H2Andy]

However, I found on my second dive of the day (no line this time, just a drift dive off the shore), I couldn't get down without my buddy grabbing hold of me to get me past the first 5-10 ft.

i suspect technique and not weight is the problem here.

you need to make sure you are not breathing hard, as this
will make things more difficult.

so, first, take a rest if you are winded from getting into
the water.

second, make sure ALL your air is out of your BC. you will
be surprised what a difference a little air can make. HOld
that purge button above your head and squeeze and keep squeezing.

third, simply exhale completely and hold still. get your lungs empty.

hold this for two or three seconds, and you will see if you
start to sink or not.

if you don't succeed at first, try a few times to make sure
you are doing everything right.

being vertical (feet first) will help you sink, though
I prefer a horizontal descent myself (i.e. lying on your tummy).

 

[ShakaZulu]

80 cubic feet of air weighs the same, whether it's in a steel, aluminum, or fiberglass tank --- about 6 pounds.

blah, blah, blah.........

.

Agreed, but the steel tank is always negative, where the AL tanks starts out negative and change positive at the end of the dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hi all,

I'm diving fresh water with a 2 pc 7 mm suit, boots & gloves, AL80 @3000psi. I'm 5'6", 120 lbs. I've been told I was overweighted with 24 lb on my OW checkout dives, and have been successful with 18 lb on my latest wreck dive this weekend, which was great. However, I found on my second dive of the day (no line this time, just a drift dive off the shore), I couldn't get down without my buddy grabbing hold of me to get me past the first 5-10 ft. Does this mean I need more weight for shore dives (ones without a line going down)? I've been told I should be able to go down to 16 lb soon, but all this neoprene is making me extra buoyant. It's very frustrating trying to do a duck dive and feeling my fins flopping in mid-air, not able to get down!!! On another note, on those occasions when I go headfirst, I find my ears harder to equalize, too. Any tips on doing those shore dives, do I need more weight? Much as I like my buddy, I don't think he needs the added stress of having to help me get below the surface! I'm hoping this problem will go away when I get a 7mm full suit (one less layer of rubber), but in the meantime I'm still having this problem. out:

Your problem may not have to do with weighting at all. I think Charlie99 may have given you the answer.

Was this your first drift dive? Were you a little bit stressed about the new conditions? If so, chances are you were not exhaling all the way when it was time to begin the descent.

It's a common situation with new divers. Next time you need to descend, make sure to completely exhale. Then, when you think you've got all the air out of your lungs, exhale some more. You might be surprised by what happens.

Next, make sure you're not working against yourself. Were you trying a feet-first descent? Did you make sure you stopped kicking? It's common with newer divers that they keep kicking while trying to descend, and therefore are unconsciously propelling themselves up while they're trying to go down. Tuck your feet under your butt ... or just cross your fins so you won't be kicking them ... until you're a few feet underneath the surface.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)