More keyframes for GoPro videos?

[CriticalMass]

Adrian, what software are you using for your video editing? If you tell us which one you use we may be able to help you out. Keyframes are set in the editor and all decent editing software should have an unlimited amount of keyframes available to be used at any frame of video.

Marty - I think "keyframes" are irrelevant for purposes of this discussion. The OP asked how to "add keyframes to GoPro video", but later lamented that he is only able to "cut" the video in certain places. So, although he's never actually stated what he's trying to do, I think that's it, and we know that "cutting", or splitting a video clip isn't done using keyframes. In Sony Vegas, I just position the cursor and hit "S", and it's done. Keyframes never get involved.

If my suppositions above are incorrect, perhaps the OP can elucidate.

 

[Marty Cerven]

Marty - I think "keyframes" are irrelevant for purposes of this discussion. The OP asked how to "add keyframes to GoPro video", but later lamented that he is only able to "cut" the video in certain places. So, although he's never actually stated what he's trying to do, I think that's it, and we know that "cutting", or splitting a video clip isn't done using keyframes. In Sony Vegas, I just position the cursor and hit "S", and it's done. Keyframes never get involved.

If my suppositions above are incorrect, perhaps the OP can elucidate.

I know what you say about keyframes, as cutting isn't a keyframe at all. Key frames are used for effects, animation.....etc. I think we are all a little lost on what the OP is having trouble with until he can give more info.

The camera itself just produces video and has no effect on editing the video as all the good editing packages are only limited by user creativity and not the original video file.

Maybe the OP is using the gopro cineform software which isn't a full featured editor and may have more limitations. I have only used it to create 3d files and do all my editing in cs5 as it doesn't allow you to do much.

In the trial of neo 3d I used, I came across the issue of not being able to set keyframes when colour correcting left and right frames independently. The free software doesn't allow colour correction at all and the gopro 3d hero doesnt sync exposure and white balance between cams so correction is needed. It does allow keyframes for colour correction if editing the full frame in nero 3d though.

I mentioned this to the guys at gopro and they said they will look into it for future releases.

 

[Matt S.]

I think the OP is referring to key frames as used in the video compressor, not the editing process.

Final Cut Pro 7 User Manual

Key Frames: Key frames are available if your selected codec uses temporal compression. Most video frames in close proximity have a high percentage of visual redundancy. Compression key frames reduce data rate by only storing complete images at regular intervals or when abrupt visual shifts occur. The remaining frames only store information about the change, or delta, between themselves and the key frame. Increasing the number of frames between key frames increases the amount of compression and makes the final file size smaller.

That quote s from some Apple documentation but key frames are used in a lot of codecs and I am pretty sure that MP4 is one of them.

Some editors do barf if you try to do a cut or other operation not on a keyframe... others seem to handle the interpolation better.

Increasing the number of key frames should make the file size larger, make it easier to edit with some software, and possibly improve image quality. However there is no user setting for changing compressor settings in the GoPro, as far as I know.

Adrian, if your editing software is having a hard time with GoPro files you could convert them to an intermediate format. For example on Macs I think that the AIC format is commonly used for editing... but you have to endure a lengthy conversion process when you import video. Finding an editor that isn't as picky seems like a better idea though.

 

[CriticalMass]

I think the OP is referring to key frames as used in the video compressor, not the editing process. Some editors do barf if you try to do a cut or other operation not on a keyframe... others seem to handle the interpolation better.

I dunno. Codec settings for keyframes I've seen are for setting output parameters for rendering. The OP identified an issue in which he was limited to "cutting" video only at certain points. That's during editing.

In any event, fully functional editing software easily cuts/splits GoPro video at any point, frame by frame, with no need to get involved with keyframes in the process. The OP never responded when asked what software he was using.

 

[Matt S.]

I dunno. Codec settings for keyframes I've seen are for setting output parameters for rendering. The OP identified an issue in which he was limited to "cutting" video only at certain points. That's during editing.

When the camera writes out a new file, it's still using key frames. They aren't only for re-encoding. And with some file formats and some editing software, you can only make cuts at the key frames recorded in the source file. I have seen error messages like that myself in editors and I understand his desire to make the camera write a file with more key frames but a new editor is probably the way to go.

In any case, thread's dead unless the OP comes back to talk about editors!

(Key frame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[CriticalMass]

I understand his desire to make the camera write a file with more key frames but a new editor is probably the way to go.

Well, I'll agree on the latter, anyway. With decent software, one can do pretty much everything without a lot of hassles like this. It's easy and cheap to find free stuff on the web, but mostly, at the end of the day, you get what you pay for. Stuff like K-Lite codec pack and ffdshow. Those things are so full of obscure settings for things like, yes, keyframes, that it's too easy to get bogged down in the minutiae, and lose the creative momentum. IMO, it's far better to simply bite the bullet and get the right tools for the job in the first place, even if it does mean some financial commitment. Leads to more gracious living.

 

[Matt S.]

I have been fighting with cheap editors myself lately and I agree!

 

[CriticalMass]

Y'know, Matt - I learned about encoding keyframes here from what you posted, and you got my curiosity up. I've been looking at all the wiki's etc, but I'm not finding anything much related to h.264 keyframes. In fact, the wiki on H.264/MPEG-4 AVC does not even include the word "keyframe". Very curious.

I suppose I should just consider myself fortunate that my editor (Sony Vegas Pro 9.0) doesn't require that I get down in the weeds with stuff like that. I like Vegas a lot. I've been using it for many years and through many new versions, and it just works. It's capable of things way beyond what I'll ever need it to do. It's up to v. 10 now, and I haven't upgraded yet, but if you're looking around at editors, I can recommend it. I tried Premier, and I'd pick Vegas in a heartbeat. There's a free trial.

Dave


My YouTube Channel

 

[Matt S.]

I hear great things about Vegas over and over... I should really check out the trial.

Re keyframes I am pretty sure they are part of the h.264 standard. Here's another link with some more info.
Video compression picture types - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However--I agree that it's even better if we can forget about them and get frame-accurate edits anyway.

 

[CriticalMass]

Re keyframes I am pretty sure they are part of the h.264 standard.

You're right. Stuff I've been reading about h.264 seems to indicate they like to call them "I-frames", "P-frames", and "B-frames", but it works the same way.