Moral of the Story - Bring the right equipment!

[ba_hiker]

Would a "Garmin Rino 530 GPS Radio" work just as good? You can send out a distress signal and also talk to someone with the walkie talkie feature which signals up to 14 miles in the USA.

Don't count on 14 miles, this is only possible from mountain top to mountain top. The range depends on, among other things, the distance above ground (the water surface in this case). I use 5 watt ham radios (VHF and UHF -- same bands) all the time and NEVER have gotten 14 mile range. Figure if you can't see them you can't talk, and even if you do thare are lots of problems. Bigger antennas work better, but are not really practial on a hand held unit.

Don't count on anyone listening in on that frequency. Or having a Rino that can decode the position signal (its propriatary to Garmin). Or caring, this the GMRS (general mobile radio service) and is used by many caring and some just plain goofy ones.

Don't count on complex electronics, when simpler systems will work. If you are going to carry and EPIRB make sure that you also have flares, mirrors and a whistle (or two). Smoke and streamers are good too.

Don't count on any radio that is not JIS-7 being usable at all in a wet enviornment. Even so don't attach an antanna or anything else, or change the battereies with wet hands and expect it to work. The Terafix is not designed for this use. the ACR 406 is better.

Don't expect stuff that is not designed for life saving to do that job. It may, sometimes, but generally dosen't. Don't excpect rescue equiptment to do jobs that it wasn't designbed for either. Remember these were designed to find lifeboats and ships in distress, not swimmers.

Even the EPIRBs don't work as well, in reality, as they are advertized to (why any surprise??).

EPRB signals normaly go from the epirb, to a satellite (when the satellite comes into range, generally fast but as much as two hours), to a ground station (when the satellite gets in range of the ground station, may be 45 min up to 4 hours), to an internationally operated 'local terminal user station' (7 in the world, 2 in the US when I last checked) who wait for two complete alarm cycles before forwarding the signal, to a national 'rescue cooridination center', to the local rescue squad, who then call the registered owner of the EPIRB -- before initiating rescue. The rescue is then prioritized and dispached as equiptment becomes available. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPIRB)

This CAN, mostly in demonstrations, work amazingly quickly, particularly in some locations where the LUT and the RCC are colocated and rescue coordination center and the local rescue squads are on their toes and have equiptment ready.

This is the case in Florida, where EPIRBs work as well as possible. But its not the case in Monterey where the LUT is pretty far away, the RCC is in San Diego, the local rescue squad is in San Francisco, and the equiptment is scattered from about 50 mi south of Monterey to about 100 mi north of SF.

Mostly in the USA, Europe, Australia, and New Zeland, the delay can be a couple of hours. In some other areas (much of the south seas is supported by the US from the Philippians as much as 1200 miles from a rescue location, other areas are supported by the Ozzies or from NZ 600 miles away) it is, at best, days.

Only about 15% of the signals are actual emergencies, about 50% are people pusing the button to see if it works. This is MUCH better than previous systems (say aircraft ELTs) where 99.5% or more (i have heard 99.92% for calif) of the alarms are false.

Reducing false alarms and teh costs associated with them is a major design issue. I have been on about 15 CAP missions to find ELTs and all were false alarms.

Not all of the EPIRBs are created equal either, there are ones with a built in GPS and ones without. Ones that are waterproof, others that are water resistant, and others that are not for use in the water. The ones with a built in GPS take 5 to 15 minutes to get a fix, the ones without (with GPS I/O) require a working GPS to be connected before activation. Several early models were -- questionable and took several cycles for the satellites to detect them.

 

[Scuba_Jenny]

Would a "Garmin Rino 530 GPS Radio" work just as good? You can send out a distress signal and also talk to someone with the walkie talkie feature which signals up to 14 miles in the USA. Other countries have lower signal distances I believe.

The only problem is I think its water proof and submersible only down to like 3 meters deep. If someone would make a water tight housing/case for it like they make for cameras, then buying a Garmin would be the way to go. I have been looking for a company who makes a housing case for the Garmin Rino 530 GPS but have not found one yet.

I can not believe that people actually worry about the cost of SAFETY equipment? There should never be a max amount spent on safety. Its like the guys who try to find the cheapest less expensive motorcycle helmet they can find. When it comes to your head there is nothing too expensive to protect it. Same with safety equipment for diving.

I just did a quick look see at their website. The biggest fallback of the Garmin Rino 530 GPS is it is GPS compatible only with other Garmin Rino 530 GPS radios. So, in an emergency situation, you would have to know your GPS location in order for help to find you. And you have to operate a radio. The AquaFix, while not a radio, sends a coded message directly to COPAS/SARSAT with your GPS coordinates within 100 yards. From there, Search and Rescue uses 121.5 Mhz homing for pinpoint homing. http://www.cospas-sarsat.org/Description/concept.htm

 

[ba_hiker]

Roesler says he became extremely concerned when the helicopter flew by twice.

"I was waving right at them with my dive sausage, but they couldn't see me in the rain," said Roesler.

This is not really suprising a swimmer, even waving a dive sausage, is an amazingly small target. ELTs or EPIRBs are helpful but few aircraft, except those specifically equipted for rescue, have the equiptment.

Flares, smoke, streamers, and dye markers help A LOT durring the day, and strobes, flares and launchable flares help durring the night.

 

[citykid]

I don't remember where but I heard that a ball (inflatable)instead of a sausage is seen easier on the open ocean. Anyone agree or counter this?

 

[ba_hiker]

I don't know about a ball but safety strteamers (http://www.landfallnavigation.com/srsl1.html) and dye packs work well durring the day. Many avaitors carry day/night signal flares http://www.landfallnavigation.com/ssdns.html

 

[SuSexFulDiver]

I think the Garmin Rino 530 do actually show your cordinates on the screen in case you can make radio contact with someone and tell them your actual cordinates. If you go to the website you will see they offer Marine software called Bluechart g2, or something like that.

Also I was told that the Garmin Rino series GPS have several different frequencies to find help on. I take it they are not like the brands of walkie talkies that you can only talk to others who have the same walkie talkie.

I have seen a guy with one on a mountain bike ride once and he was showing me all the features, he said it even has a distress type of signal or beacon it gives off if you are in the wilderness and such hurt.

Heck just recently the mountain climbers who are lost in Oregon the past couple of weeks, they were able to find the one climber because he was able to make a phone call from his cell phone, they were able to get within like 15 feet of where they found him because of that call.

In fact Law inforcment has caught many criminals and murderers by tracking which cell phone was the in the area at the time of the crime or murder and trace the phone to the owner.

Heck if anyone was to commit any type of crime, its not good to carry any type of cell phone with you. Even if you do not want to witness a crime, they can now tell if your cell phone was in the area of the crime at the time it occured.

I dont think it would hurt to dive with a cell phone that has GPS capabilities even.

 

[ba_hiker]

I think the Garmin Rino 530 do actually show your cordinates on the screen in case you can make radio contact with someone and tell them your actual cordinates. If you go to the website you will see they offer Marine software called Bluechart g2, or something like that.

All are propritary to Garmin. Look at the list of devices that support blue chart. http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/fhsDataCardPopUp.html
these are all stand alone GLS units. The Rino page even says:

Exclusive position-reporting capability and a host of other unique features, make the 520 one of the best all-in-one two-way radio and GPS receivers around.

Also I was told that the Garmin Rino series GPS have several different frequencies to find help on. I take it they are not like the brands of walkie talkies that you can only talk to others who have the same walkie talkie.

You are correct they have 22 frequencies in the GMRS and FRS allocation. These, and the CB band are the only frequencies that americans are allowed to use without a radio operators lisence lisence.

Actually CB and GMRS do require a lisence, but is just pay a fee and get the lisence. Of coures this would not really be a problem in an actual emergency. Federal regs specifically allow lisenced radio operators to use any frequency and mode in an emergency. The courts have expanded this a bit, to allow anyone to use them in a real emergency.

I have seen a guy with one on a mountain bike ride once and he was showing me all the features, he said it even has a distress type of signal or beacon it gives off if you are in the wilderness and such hurt.

Not a standard message. NO rescue agency, that I have ever been in contact with, EVER monitors the GMRS or FRS frequencies. This is partially because of the problem of managing the use of this. Anyone (specifaly including childeren) is allowed to use these frequencies. From the garmin web site. Calif CHP no longer even monitors CB.

# Transmit power using FRS frequency is 0.5 watt for a
range of up to 2 miles

# Transmit power using GMRS frequency is 5 watts
for a range of up to 14 miles (transmit power limited
to 2 watts in Canada for a range of up to 8 miles)

# Channels: 7 FRS, 15 GMRS, and 8 GMRS repeater
(using GMRS frequency in the U.S. requires a FCC license)

In addition these bands implement privacy tones. This means that most other radios will not recieve you message unless they are on the same frequency and are using the same privacy tone. this means that you could look through 22 x 38 radio settings before you found anyone listening. Probably not even then.

Heck just recently the mountain climbers who are lost in Oregon the past couple of weeks, they were able to find the one climber because he was able to make a phone call from his cell phone, they were able to get within like 15 feet of where they found him because of that call.

In fact Law inforcment has caught many criminals and murderers by tracking which cell phone was the in the area at the time of the crime or murder and trace the phone to the owner.

Heck if anyone was to commit any type of crime, its not good to carry any type of cell phone with you. Even if you do not want to witness a crime, they can now tell if your cell phone was in the area of the crime at the time it occured.

I dont think it would hurt to dive with a cell phone that has GPS capabilities even.

All true.

Cell phone tracking can only be done in range of the cell phone. Which is good in many areas. Remember that the climbers were almost on top of the mountain, which improves their range. If you are afloat, after being left by your boat, your antenna will be very low. This will reduce the range to a minimum. I have used a 5 watt aircraft radio from a cessna over santa barbara and talked to redding. This was from 10,000 ft though with, for all intents, a clear line of site.

I do carry a cell phone on dive trips. Not into the water though, if I attempted to use it floating in the ocean it would die instantly. Furthermore most cell phone are in the 700mz to 900mz bands and are limited to .5 watts. They are even more restrictive than the FRS radios. I kayak and have had several Marine VHF radios fail (all supposedly waterproof) just on the deck of the kayak.

Go ahead take what you want. But if you count on it in an emergency, you may be disappointed. I prefer approved, supported means (monitored by the coasties).

 

[ba_hiker]

Also, thanks to the link provided by scuba_jenny I found an update on the locations of the down links for the satellites. There are 15 now (14 offically operational) there is only ONE in the USA, in Maryland. All US rescue operations, triggered by EPIRBs, goes through that one station.

They also have nifty animations of the system operation.

They also say that the 121.5 mz system will be phased out, and bcome compleatly phased out by 1 feb 2009.

 

[ba_hiker]

the extra $$ and get the model with the GPS I/O. It sends GPS info out with the first burst, saving valuable minutes in a rescue situation.

Remember that the ones with the GPS I/O require a connection to a GPS to get position info. And that when you go underwater you will lost the GPS signal.

 

[Scuba_Jenny]

From what I understand about the phasing out of the 121.5MHz, is they will not longer moniter it for distress signals, however it will still be used as a homing signal once an emergency is confirmed.
Here is the spec sheet on the AquaFix with the particulars on the GPS information. http://www.acrelectronics.com/aquafix/AquaFixSpec.pdf. From what I understand, the Onboard GPS can be attached to a GPS unit (say on a boat) for continues GPS positioning, and in the case of an emergency, already has that information to transmit, while the other one has to aquire it. Thus, the I/O can be contacting SAR in as few as 3 minutes.
The problem with the handheld PLBs is none of them can be taken to depth without some sort of protective case. And regardless if you take them underwater, none of them will transmit underwater, you have to be at the surface.