Monoxide Poisoning?

[DiverInAk]

did you have their tanks analyzed?

I don't know but I sure hope so.

 

[texdiveguy]

I don't know what's natural about foaming blood, but OK. My understanding is that the ME found air in several places where it didn't belong. I don't know the 'official' cause of death yet. Foaming blood sounds like gas bubbles in blood which spells embolism to me.

This is a very common malidy of recovered underwater death victims,,,partc. at depth. Gasses traped within the lungs expands and so doing causes blood to be released into the victims throat and out the mouth in the form of bubbly foam. It is a natural process and is just how the body reacts to the pressure and expanding gas changes on the way up. It does not always indicate embolism in the sense that we think of the various forms of DCI....death infact can occur by other means at depth and the victim still exhibit what appears to be embolism.

 

[texdiveguy]

The incident is real. The ME has not released cause of death. Nor does cause of death necessarily spell out what happened.

The point of my post is for general discussion regarding thoughts of what might have caused two trained healthy divers on tethers to be found well off their dive plan, decended to a depth of 200' or more feet and be pulled back up dead with a total time u/w of roughly 18 minutes?

If the ME says that they died of gas embolism caused by a rapid ascent, that doesn't necessarily explain why they were both at those depths and non-responsive or unable to arrest a rapid ascent. That would indicate that one or both were already incapacitated wouldn't it? If so, then why? What would do that? My only thought is that it had to have been in their tanks.

Diving is a very complex science and one we frankly still know little about in terms of the human body and just how and why gas/pressure do certain things. It sounds like the ME is doing a good job in his/her investigation,,,the final results I am sure you are interested in learning. It is really very hard to pin point the cause of such an incident,,,,does seem strange on the outward side,,,but we know something went astray for these 2 divers....and in many such tragic incidents we will never know exactly what happened. Your orginal thought on the carbon monoxide being a possible factor leading to the sad and final end does have merit from what you have been able to share on the incident. I hope you are able to follow the situation and share what you learn in the future,,,would be helpful to us all.

 

[DiverInAk]

This is exactly why I like to discuss the incident. We can only hope to learn from it. When I first started diving I read quite a lot on post incident reports and analysis and I used that to help keep myself safe. I will share what I know as it becomes available.

 

[texdiveguy]

This is exactly why I like to discuss the incident. We can only hope to learn from it. When I first started diving I read quite a lot on post incident reports and analysis and I used that to help keep myself safe. I will share what I know as it becomes available.

Hey thanks...it is an interesting case,,,though we all feel sorrow for the 2 fellows and the families. Will keep an eye out on your thread for any updates.

 

[DiverInAk]

Until today I was suspecting the fill station and possibly Carbon Monoxide or some other oderless gas that managed to make it to their bottles. Today I learn that apparently the fill stations was prepped to be moved. The air for these dives was ordered from a medical supply house!

That seems a bit odd to me, knowing that there are plenty of dive shops in the area. It also raises a red flag as I'm now wondering if it was possible that they had TOO MUCH O2 in the fill, or potentially pure O2? That could very well hit both divers with CNS at rather moderate depth of say 40 - 50fsw and especially considering that it was also a cold water dive.

 

[rjack321]

This is a very common malidy of recovered underwater death victims,,,partc. at depth. Gasses traped within the lungs expands and so doing causes blood to be released into the victims throat and out the mouth in the form of bubbly foam. It is a natural process and is just how the body reacts to the pressure and expanding gas changes on the way up. It does not always indicate embolism in the sense that we think of the various forms of DCI....death infact can occur by other means at depth and the victim still exhibit what appears to be embolism.

This was my concern, that there's really wasn't an embolism because there was no actual circulation when they ascended. I guess maybe the air penetrated the lungs but the COD was not an arteriol bubble / stroke.

 

[rjack321]

I have never heard of a medical supply house filling scuba tanks, highly unusual.

 

[mikerault]

Where the tanks tested? I know this was asked before but no one responded. If the tanks had no issues then it becomes really interesting.

Mike

 

[DiverInAk]

Regarding Embolism. I think we got hung up on my use of the word "Embolize". I was tryign to say that gas came out of suspension in their bodies and formed bubbles. Not necessarily that this was COD. I felt that this was important in the discussion since it may be that COD was other than AGE but that AGE symptoms were present upon ascent.

There, did I completely foul that up now?