Modern Doublehose Regulators???

[RikRaeder]

Like I said, it's in the current catalog here, and quite pricey might I add. I'm happy with my single hose, but had happened upon this recently and thought it fit the bill.

 

[Luis H]

Like I said, it's in the current catalog here, and quite pricey might I add. I'm happy with my single hose, but had happened upon this recently and thought it fit the bill.

Well, I don't want to sound picky, but I think the OP (Oldmossback) has in mind a good performing regulator. This one doesn't fit that bill.

 

[captain]

My two top preforming regulators is my Scubapro MK V/ R109 and my hot rodded, ported and polished Phoenix Royal Aqua Master. No noticeable difference between them.

 

[SLY_GUY]

I've read on the internet that the Nemrod Snark 3 with both LP and HP ports was bought by Seamless and manufactured all the way up until 1998. Has anyone seen one of these recent models? The only Snarks I see are old ones from the 70s.

 

[Nemrod]

These are the current modern double hoses regulators

1. AL Mistral, recently discontinued, the vintage community mostly hated them and they did not perform as well as one would expect

2. Nemrod, ceased production in 1998 or so and are rare in North America

3. AL Mentor, special edition regulator made for the miliary in a small number, unavailable to civilians save for one fellow who managed to get his hands on one. AL will deny they exist.

4. Phoenix Conversion Aqua Master, the Phoenix conversion designed by Luis updates an Aqua Master to essentailly a double hose Titan with HP and LP ports. Equipped with silicone diaphram, silicone duck bill valve, modern Titan first stage internal components, high flow cage valves with silicone valves, a little bit of tuning knowledge and as Captain inferred, some porting and polishing, the Phoenix Aqua Master can hold it's own. Cracking pressure is still a bit more than with some high performance singles but exhaust effort is less and as well once flow is initiated a double hose can supply significant amounts of air thus the total WOB is probably very competitive with modern equipment. Note, Phoenix conversion kits are produced in small quantities usually once per year, orders are being taken at vdh in advance. These are precisely engineered and made components that when coupled with all of the silicone replacements for age hardened neoprene parts brings the Aqua Master into the 21st Century, like it or not.

N

 

[vintagediver]

The Royal Aqua Master in particular can be adjusted to breath extremely well.

Are you using the new silicone diaphragms? That alone from my testing will bring the inhaling effort down about 1/2 inWC.

Also the new improved mouthpiece valve cages have the wagon wheel spokes shaped to avoid the valves from sticking when wet. The new valve cages in combination with the new silicone valves also make a dramatic difference in reducing WOB.

When was the last time you serviced or had your RAM serviced?
Most of us are pushing the performance of our DH by fine tuning and adjusting our regulators to a level far beyond what I used to do back in the 70's.

Bryan at VDH does a great job at servicing this regulators and everyone I have heard seems to be very happy with the performance improvements after service.

I (and several other in the group) do our own service and we tend to push the limit even further. I have to use duckbill long enough for the exhaust slits lay precisely at the center of the diaphragm or in some positions the water column differential from the diaphragm to the exhaust tends to cause a free flow.

All of my RAM and Phoenix Royal Aqua Master are set to have a cracking suction effort to 0.6 inWC or slightly less. Most any single hose that could be adjusted to that level will have a free flow in a head down position due to the exhaust being higher than the diaphragm.


IMHO, if you need help making your RAM breath better, you found the right group. You may also want to join us at VintageDouleHose.com and VintageScubaSupply.com.

As I mention, with many of the new replacement part at VDH.com we are pushing the performance to a level never experienced before.


I hope this helps.

Yes, now that is the response I was looking for.
I maintain all of them myself, and over the years I feel very comfortable doing so but if you know someone that can do a super-tune, I would like to have one that I could take traveling for recreational diving. Phoenix, silicone poppets, diaphram, etc...
I would like to rebuild the DA.
All the parts are the original materials except for the seats. Buna, nitril, neoprpene, latex etc...
The DW Streamair works about as good as it can.
The Royal is original and works perfectly.
Is there a Phoenix available for the DA?
Are the silicone parts available all of them?
If not, what is?

 

[captain]

The silicone diaphragms will fit all the U S Divers and Voit regulators, so will the duckbills and one way mouthpiece valves. The Phoenix conversion will fit any US Divers or Voit two stage regulator but maximun performance can only be attained with the Aqua Master, Royal Aqua Master and Voit Navy because of a second stage design that has venturi assist.

 

[Nemrod]

Yes, now that is the response I was looking for.
I maintain all of them myself, and over the years I feel very comfortable doing so but if you know someone that can do a super-tune, I would like to have one that I could take traveling for recreational diving. Phoenix, silicone poppets, diaphram, etc...
I would like to rebuild the DA.
All the parts are the original materials except for the seats. Buna, nitril, neoprpene, latex etc...
The DW Streamair works about as good as it can.
The Royal is original and works perfectly.
Is there a Phoenix available for the DA?
Are the silicone parts available all of them?
If not, what is?

First, installing a Phoenix on a DA converts it into a Royal Aqua Master configuration with the addition of the LP and HP ports. Installing a Phoenix on a RAM only adds ports. Installing a Phoenix on a Voit Navy (same as DA) makes a cool Phoenix Navy. The silicone cage valves, high flow cages, silicone diaphrams are available for or generic to many if not most Voit and USD double hoses regulators, same for the hoses, mouthpieces etc.

The silicone cage valves and main diaprham are a great improvement over stiff (even NOS) 40 year old neoprene diaphrams. May the hoarders of said neoprene diaphrams be stuck with the stiff old boot leather forever, . The silicone is a huge improvement.

In fact, as amazing as it might seem, vdh even has a brand spanking new silicone main diaprham for the Voit Trieste.

N

 

[Nemrod]

Boy, you guys sure like to argue...
I love diving a double hose and have done so continuously since 1969.
They have some peculiar traits that are a function of their design.
I have a DW Streamair, a DA Aquamaster, a Nimrod, and a Royal (73).
But none of these, ever did, nor will they ever, compare with the WOB of a premium single hose regulator. If they did then they would still be manufactured and everyone would be using one. If you think they do....then prove it with some test stats or make mine breath better.

Several of us have had our regulators on a magnehelic, you can take our word for it or not. Does not change the facts, it is not like some of us, including me own the latest and most modern gear as well so we can certainly do reasonable comparisons. A more official test may be in the works, things like that take time and money. The current (non) production status of double hose regulators has nothing to do with their breathing performance of iron clad reliability.

As to the "arguning" again since most of the vintage community actually has met face to face and are friends, we are not arguing, we are often ribbing and poking but we all respect one another and of course just speaking for myself, I respect you as well and welcome to the fold if you wish to join. Best of luck to you. N

 

[DA Aquamaster]

This is the the you need to check out.

Vintage Double Hose

The Phoenix nozzle was intended to be added to a DA Aquamaster or a Royal Aquamaster or the Voit clone.

Silicone mushroom valves are available for the USD mouthpieces and the silicone diaphragms are available for the two stage USD regs and clones. Other new reproduction parts are introduced all the time and overall the outlook is far better than it was 5-10 years ago when you spent lots of time tracking down serviceable vintage parts (although that was part of the fun and I now have a nice stock of considerablyy devalued vintage parts).

In terms of inhalation performance, I get a solid .5" of water inhalation effort on my PRAM with silicone diaphragm and mushroom valves. That compares extremely well to any modern high performance single hose reg. The difference is in the placement of the can versus the mouthpiece. Taht differnece in the water column directly equates to a change in inhalation effort. If the can is shallower than the mouthiece, inhalation effort increases, if it is deeper, it practically force feeds air to you.

To get it right in a normal swimming position, you need to wear the double hose so that the can sits between the shoulder blades as close to the back as possible. I recently switched one set of doubles to a vintage manifold that lets the can sit below the cross bar and adjusted the bands so it sets just at the top of my back plate to get it as low as possible.

In many cases modern divers who try them try to dive with them too high on the back and too far above the back.