Mixing DIN and Yoke Regs on Doubles

[Diver0001]

I am about to finally buy a second reg for my journey into doubles, and after reading the DIN vs Yoke debates have decided to go with DIN. Only issue is that my other reg is a yoke. Since doubles have two valves can I just have one valve be DIN and the other yoke, and use a 200 bar manifold? Tanks will be Worthington HP130s.

(Yeah, I know I could convert the yoke reg to DIN, but I just want to leave it as is if possible)

Thanks for helping out the newbie, oh wise tech diver senseis!

Yoke regulators have no place on a double set (or on a single set if you ask me). If you care enough about redundancy to go for doubles then you will convert all your regs to DIN.

Don't be lazy. It's a $50 kit and 5 minutes of work. Do it right. Period.

R..

 

[Vegan Shark]

Have you selected an instructor for your journey yet? Spending 3-4 hours and a 6 pack with said instructor would clear your head of all these thoughts.
Eric

Not yet. I thought I might get the most out of tech instruction if I were already familiar with the gear and drills, etc. before beginning, which is why I wanted to switch to doubles even just for rec dives. Honestly don't think I've mastered rec stuff yet: I'm still working a lot on trim, finning techniques, SAC rate, and getting more comfortable in the water. Being solo in low vis in the 100 ft range still stresses me out, as does swimming a mile out on shore dives. Figuring it's best I conquer all my fears, and master the basics, before stepping to the next level.

 

[waterpirate]

You really need a mentor, not a bunch of chitty chat on SB. Go find the cool kids where you live/dive and see if they will take you under their wing. A real life evaluation of your skills now based on the premise that you are seeking tech training will do wonders for your time and money management.
Eric

 

[Jim Lapenta]

This is a good approach to insure you are not alive long enough to take tech training. The proper way would be to take a good intro to tech course before doing any of the above stuff with doubles. Especially with less than 100 dives. What is likely to happen is you spend a bunch of money on gear and try to make it work. Then you find a good instructor to do intro with. When that happens he/she, if they are really good, will go over your gear with you and start telling you to get rid of this, that, and the other thing. Then buy this and that. Costing you two or three times as much money.
Or you may find one who will say "well maybe we can make this stuff work". That's the one I would run away from.
Go DIN and if having one reg for single tank vacation only diving sounds silly I better do something about the dozen regs I own. Including the two that only get used for vacations or the pool.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

VS, if you can get a mentor, as was already suggested, that is a great way to go. If not, that shouldn't deter your progress.

The gear config for introductory technical diving is not some black magic that only the indoctrinated can assemble. There is plenty written about it (freely available on the Internet), and the basics, that you won't have to buy over and over again, are not terribly complicated.

You already know you need two first stages (DIN is the right choice). You know you need two second stages. They should both be good breathers, as you will be handing off your primary to an OOA and potentially panicked diver, who will need good air flow, and you will be breathing under stress on your backup, so you'll want good performance. Most people will start with a long and short hose, but some won't (usually wreck divers). The short hose is bungeed to your neck.

You are already going to be in a wing and backplate (SS or AL). You need to make sure your wing has sufficient lift for the gear/suit you're wearing. You will want some redundant lift (drysuit or lift bag is typical) and you need to practice with this stuff. The valve drills are easily explained but require practice. Things need to be clipped off/secured at all times. And you need to be able to handle contingencies.

My opinion is that having an instructor or mentor for this is optimal, but not requisite. You can practice your kicks and drills in shallow OW or a pool. You can video tape this and your trim, and compare it to proper examples. There is a ton you can do to develop yourself without having to pay someone else, who may or may not have mastery over the skills you are trying to develop.

And SB is here to help with the details when you run into a road block. If you're confident in your aptitude and willing to work and practice, this is all very much within your reach.

 

[Vegan Shark]

Thanks for the encouragement, Michael

This may sound like a stupid question, but.... where do BPW divers store all their gizmos? Drysuits have pockets, but are wetsuit divers left with just clipping everything to D rings (and where is the best place to clip off a lift bag?) In case you had to use the lift bag for your redundant buoyancy in an emergency, would you simply keep it clipped to you and shoot it up with your reg? (then hold on for the surface swim I guess)

SMBs generally have enough lift to double as redundant buoyancy too, right? And while I'm on my barrage of questions: How practical is it to get out of a harness while wearing thick gloves (5mm) in case you had to just ditch your rig on the bottom and swim up.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

Thanks for the encouragement, Michael

This may sound like a stupid question, but.... where do BPW divers store all their gizmos? Drysuits have pockets, but are wetsuit divers left with just clipping everything to D rings (and where is the best place to clip off a lift bag?) In case you had to use the lift bag for your redundant buoyancy in an emergency, would you simply keep it clipped to you and shoot it up with your reg? (then hold on for the surface swim I guess)

SMBs generally have enough lift to double as redundant buoyancy too, right? And while I'm on my barrage of questions: How practical is it to get out of a harness while wearing thick gloves (5mm) in case you had to just ditch your rig on the bottom and swim up.

1. Pockets typically. You can glue pockets on wetsuits, or buy ones that slide onto your harness and clip around your legs. I have a couple from Piranhadivemfg like that.

2. I clip my liftbag to my tail d-ring. You shoot it depending on what kind it is. Mine has a valve that I can hook to my drysuit or wing inflator to inflate and an overpressure valve. So you can inflate it, while holding onto it, until you're neutral, then use your lungs to ascend a bit, and dump air out of the OPV as needed like you would using a wing.

3. For SMBs I'd say no. It depends on the inherent lift in the SMB, and unless you have a wide 6' or bigger, it's not going to get you much.

4. You have a belt buckle, so you just unbuckle. I'd drop my weights (if wearing any) first obviously. I wear 5mm or 7mm gloves here in the winter and have no issues w/ this.

 

[DevonDiver]

...take a good intro to tech course before doing any of the above stuff with doubles. Especially with less than 100 dives. What is likely to happen is you spend a bunch of money on gear and try to make it work. Then you find a good instructor to do intro with. When that happens he/she, if they are really good, will go over your gear with you and start telling you to get rid of this, that, and the other thing. Then buy this and that. Costing you two or three times as much money.

I can vouch for this. I started down the technical diving path more than a decade ago. I had a big shopping spree and bought what I felt I needed. There was no Scubaboard etc back then.. I then signed up for an 'Intro-to-Doubles' course with Mark Powell (in the UK) as a prelude to doing TDI technical qualifications. I swiftly learned that my rig was far from optimal. I had to go shopping again... and much of what I had bought already was consigned to under the stairs, where it remained until I learned of Ebay..

The best thing about an expert familiarization (intro-to-tech/intro-double) is that you aren't just 'told' why things work or don't work - you are shown... you get to experience the difference.

 

[DevonDiver]

This may sound like a stupid question, but....

There are no stupid questions. The only stupid thing is to get in the water without having them answered.

where do BPW divers store all their gizmos? Drysuits have pockets, but are wetsuit divers left with just clipping everything to D rings...

As others have mentioned, you can put pockets onto your wetsuit also. The issue of 'D-ring management' is important in technical diving, even more so in overhead environment diving. 'Danglies' are frowned upon in the tech community - again, lessons learned from tragedies.

..and where is the best place to clip off a lift bag?

Three primary options:

1) Dedicated 'sleeve' attached to the inside of the backplate.



2) Rolled into a pocket.

3) Secured by bolt-snap to the rear crotch-strap D-ring.

In case you had to use the lift bag for your redundant buoyancy in an emergency, would you simply keep it clipped to you and shoot it up with your reg?

You should never, ever, ever inflate a DSMB/lift-bag whilst it is clipped to you. You should never, ever, clip off a deployed DSMB/Lift-bag to you.

Using a DSMB/lift-bag for redundant buoyancy needs a lot of skill and practice - for that reason, some agencies do not advocate it. Some don't allow it at all.

How practical is it to get out of a harness while wearing thick gloves (5mm)

A properly configured and fitted harness shouldn't be difficult to get out of quickly; assuming no physical impediments/disadvantages (esp. in respect to shoulder mobility). Wearing gloves makes little difference - the critical factors are; equipment familiarity, experience, practice and ingrained muscle memory. Those factors overcome any decreased dexterity from thicker gloves. Anticipate that you will struggle initially, don't blame the equipment for this... and remain confident that fluidity is a matter of experience.

... in case you had to just ditch your rig on the bottom and swim up.

This has little relevance for technical or overhead diving. However, in the interests of discussion, do search and read about 'Balanced Rig'. Many technical/cave divers subscribe to a philosophy that you should be able to swim the rig up. That's a matter of intelligent selection, through a holistic approach.

 

[Michael Guerrero]

You should never, ever, ever inflate a DSMB/lift-bag whilst it is clipped to you. You should never, ever, clip off a deployed DSMB/Lift-bag to you.

Using a DSMB/lift-bag for redundant buoyancy needs a lot of skill and practice - for that reason, some agencies do not advocate it. Some don't allow it at all.

Sorry, and thanks to DD for catching that. No, it's not clipped to you when you deploy it. It's clipped for stowage. You unclip to deploy and use your hands. This is a lot of task loading, and as DD said, a lot of practice is required. Not just initial practice, but continuous familiarity to retain this perishable skill. Every dive is a training event right?!

A fourth, and common way to store it, is either in a pack (like the one OMS makes Oms Emergency Deployment System Bca-267) hooked to the bottom of your BP or in two bungies hooked to the bottom of your BP.

Also, as DD said, really not worried about ditching a rig, and certainly not on the bottom. For tech dives, you're not in a CESA environment. And ditching weight, given an assumed deco obligation, is a pretty serious decision.

EDIT:

Lol, and we have now far exceeded the main point of this thread. Probably appropriate to start something new or send PMs for other questions unrelated to regulators.