Mix and match agencies/certs?

[MichaelMc]

Classes teach you things (hopefully) and some convince others you qualify for something.

The early classes that serve as key 'qualify for something' markers are:
- OW: Shops will fill your tank or let you on a (shallow) boat.
- Nitrox: Shops will fill your tank with Nitrox
- 'AOW'/Deep: Boats have some assurance that you were trained as a competent diver at deeper recreational depths. Now they will let you on a boat that is going to more than just shallow sites. There is no rule about this, but just in general. To the boat, the key bit is that someone certified you as having done a deepish dive, so the boat can refer to that existing certification as to why they let you go on the dive. As mentioned, what AOW means varies by agency. The boats do not generally care what agency is on the card.

Beyond that, classes are for your benefit to be a better diver. Shops teaching classes just want to see that you took the general prerequisite classes, from some agency. They generally list them as 'requires XYZ class, or equivalent'.

 

[Rickk]

All dive certification agencies (There is not not just PADI, SSI etc but over 160 different agencies out there) all follow the guidelines laid out by the World Recreational Scuba Training Council Council.

World Recreational Scuba Training Council - Wikipedia

The minimum standards are the same for all agencies so OW, AOW or any specialty meets the same minimum requirements as any other agencies. Since this is all about getting bodies in the water and money out of the diver, all the main commercial agencies meet just the minimum standards, none of the go (much) beyond that.

While I am sure that they would all like to lock a diver into their training schemes ( and revenue generating stream) they all accept certs by a different agency to progress to more advanced levels. Their thinking is most likely that the poaching of divers will work itself out in the long run, what they lose to another agency will be balanced by what they poach back.

So if you have OW from one agency, AOW from another, Rescue from a third plus a gear bag full of cards all from different agencies, you will have basically the same training subject to the huge variation from different instructors. You will be able to progress through the training with no real issues. If you have certs from a lesser known agency, you may have issues demonstrating that but generally will not have much problem. Remember that a LDS or a training operation is concerned about their revenue stream so once they do due diligence you will be accepted.

The only exception to this appears to be in the Master Scuba Diver rating. Some agencies accept all required certs from a different agency, some require a number of their certs and some want specific certs etc. However since this is a recognition c-card of someone taking a given amount of training and is a dead end card, in that it does not lead to any more advanced training, it really does not matter.

 

[boulderjohn]

The minimum standards are the same for all agencies so OW, AOW or any specialty meets the same minimum requirements as any other agencies. Since this is all about getting bodies in the water and money out of the diver, all the main commercial agencies meet just the minimum standards, none of the go (much) beyond that.

When I started instructing about 15 years ago, the PADI OW standards were identical to the WRSTC standards. About 8 years ago PADI added a number of new requirements to their OW class, requirements that were not added to the WRSTC standards. I do not know anything about changes in other agencies.

 

[Gareth J]

I hold qualifications with PADI, BSAC, IANTD, TDI, plus a few others.
By definition I also have equivalence with EN14153 (ISO24801) and EN14413 (ISO24802), although that always seems a bit academic, no one has ever been unhappy with the other qualifications.

Transference of diving qualifications between agencies is very agency specific, in some cases instructor specific. If an instructor doesn't understand your existing qualification, he/she is going to be very skeptical about giving you equivalence.

I mostly teach under the BSAC banner, the BSAC is quite flexible, and has a nice equivalence table as a handy cross reference. This does make life a lot easier. This can be a bit of a blunt tool, i.e. you may have skills beyond those of the level you are crossing over as. With BSAC, you can dive under the limitations of your existing qualifications. Most people moving to BSAC want to take the next BSAC qualification open to them, inevitably, there is some missing knowledge. An easy example of 'missing knowledge' wold be the understanding and application of the BSAC tables (the BSAC88's). We generally do 'fill in' lessons to fix this before starting the next qualification.

I used to do some teaching for a local facility, we regularly ran BSAC dive leader courses for PADI Divemasters and rescue divers. The big attraction at the time was a qualification that covered staged decompression.

Learning with other agencies, does broaden your knowledge understanding and approach, never a bad thing.

 

[Bob DBF]

However since this is a recognition c-card of someone taking a given amount of training and is a dead end card, in that it does not lead to any more advanced training, it really does not matter.

With the exception of the NAUI Master Scuba Diver course. It consists of the non-leadership portion of the Divemaster certification. It is a stand alone course for those that want more in depth training without "going pro". If one decides to become a NAUI Divemaster, that training is required, and a NAUI MSD need only complete the leadership portion of the DM program.

It's a good program if one hasn't made up their mind on long term goals.

 

[Gareth J]

With the exception of the NAUI Master Scuba Diver course. It consists of the non-leadership portion of the Divemaster certification. It is a stand alone course for those that want more in depth training without "going pro". If one decides to become a NAUI Divemaster, that training is required, and a NAUI MSD need only complete the leadership portion of the DM program.

It's a good program if one hasn't made up their mind on long term goals.

Thats interesting.

BSAC diving qualifications have 'leadership' as a fundamental element, especially by the time you get to Dive Leader (Running Expeditions to locations known to the branch), Advanced Divers (Running Expeditions to unfamiliar locations), First Class (Running complex expeditions to achieve specific objectives and tasks in unfamiliar locations).
You can't gain instructor qualifications without achieving Dive Leader (allows opportunity to gain Open Water Instructor), Advanced Diver (allows opportunity to gain Advanced Instructor), First Class (allows opportunity to gain National Instructor).

 

[JMBL]

Been mixing certifications for 30 years now : PADI, CMAS, TDI, TSA, FFESSM... Not a problem, unless you meet a pinhead dive centre manager, but then everything's a problem...

 

[Bob DBF]

BSAC diving qualifications have 'leadership' as a fundamental element, especially by the time you get to Dive Leader (Running Expeditions to locations known to the branch), Advanced Divers (Running Expeditions to unfamiliar locations), First Class (Running complex expeditions to achieve specific objectives and tasks in unfamiliar locations).

A difference in the use of terms due to the line between divers and dive professionals in agencies that are not club based. Leadership is on the professional side of the line. The MSD training includes developing leadership skills, however since they're not in a position of authority, there is no practical use.

I hope this didn't make it more confusing. It's a different mindset.

 

[jgttrey]

The minimum standards are the same for all agencies so OW, AOW or any specialty meets the same minimum requirements as any other agencies.

That's true for fundamental things like OW, Nitrox, OWSI, etc, but not for specialities or recognition type ratings. There aren't wrtsc standards for everything. As noted above, when it comes to AOW, there are differences between agencies. PADI AOW is just a sampler package - a single dive from various specialities. SSI calls that sort of program Advanced Adventurer. If you want SSI AOW you have to complete each of the specialties entirely plus have 24 dives. It's a different animal and involves more training. You can be a PADI AOW with 1 deep dive and no deep specialty. Not so with SSI.

That is not a slam on PADI and it doesn't mean that you can't also get good training and a deep specialty from PADI. It just to point out that the program is different.

 

[boulderjohn]

That is not a slam on PADI and it doesn't mean that you can't also get good training and a deep specialty from PADI. It just to point out that the program is different.

As you say, it is a different philosophy. When AOW was first created (by LA County and then NAUI), the primary goal was to introduce divers to different aspects of diving in order to pique their interest. That is still how PADI does it. If you liked that first dive enough to explore further, then go ahead and take the specialty. If not, then don't bother. SSI wants you to take the full specialty so that you have a more complete experience with each of those areas of interest rather than just a taste.