Missouri Fatality

[bsee65]

After reviewing the DAN statistics on fatalities, it would appear that the five tops reason for diving deaths are (in descending order):

1. Insufficient Gas
2. Strong Current / Rough Seas
3. Poor Fitness, High BMI / Heart Disease
4. Entrapment
5. Equipment Malfunction / Problems

I'm sure DAN's data is based upon incident analysis. Personally, I look at that list and see a lot of things with a root cause of diver error. Could be in the form of bad planning, a mistake under water, lack of training, misplaced trust, or excessive confidence. While human error isn't a component in every fatality, it's there at some level in an awful lot of them.

With regard to narcosis as a primary cause, I certainly think it can be. If a diver gets down and is feeling too happy to check guages, then running out of gas or getting too deep could occur as a result. Certainly, diminished mental acuity has to increase the rate of human error. You wouldn't take a couple shots of whiskey before diving, so why would you plan to incur narcosis if it can be avoided? It's a risk, but much of diving is managing risk. Understand the risk, choose for yourself, and don't take or send someone else down without a full understanding on their part. Pretty much the same thing I'd say about any aspect of diving.

With regard to this incident, I think we'd need to get a picture for the plan vs. actual profile and maybe some commentary from the instructor to begin to understand what went wrong.

 

[gNats]

Has anyone confirmed that they were diving on air or just speculating becuase of the course? On dive 12 you can use trimix.

People at the dive site on Saturday confirmed that the tanks had air filled by the dive shop.

Again, another good point is made:

We don't even know WHAT dive they were completing as part of the course. It could have been dive 7 and something went totally awry.

If the police release any further details, which is highly unlikely, this thread will need to be completely started over so that truly educational discussion regarding how to prevent this from happening can occur aside from the bickering about what is right and what is wrong.

For all we know, the deceased diver died at 25', sunk to 178', and rose to the top some time later. The the whole point of this being a deep air fatality is silly until we understand why the computer was taken to 178'.

I personally don't think any further information will be released by the police to the media. The police have no reason to release further information as to the cause of the accident to the community.We are only going to learn additional details through the surviving diver, the family of either diver, or a diving buddy of the two close to the family. And, if there is any reason to suspect there is something hanky about the death, or that there is liability, the information will not be released.

 

[Diver0001]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

A few posts containing agency bashing and the responses to that have been deleted.

The deep air discussion has been split off into a separate thread. It was drifting too far off topic and dominating the thread. Here is the link

Please remind yourselves of the special rules for this forum

The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through the examination and discussion of accidents and incidents; to find lessons we can apply to our own diving.
Accidents, and incidents that could easily have become accidents, can often be used to illustrate actions that lead to injury or death, and their discussion is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow. To foster the free exchange of information valuable to this process, the "manners" in this forum are much more tightly controlled than elsewhere on the board. In addition to the TOS:

(1) You may not release any names here, until after the names have appeared in the public domain (articles, news reports, sheriff's report etc.) The releasing report must be cited. Until such public release, the only name you may use in this forum is your own.
(2) Off topic posts will be removed and off topic comments will be edited.
(3) No flaming, name calling or otherwise attacking other posters. You may attack ideas; you may not attack people.
(4) No trolling; no blamestorming. Mishap analysis does not lay blame, it finds causes.
(5) No "condolences to the family" here. Please use our Passings Forum for these kinds of messages.
(6) If you are presenting information from a source other than your own eyes and ears, cite the source.
(7) If your post is your hypothesis, theory, or a "possible scenario," identify it as such.

The thread has been reopened.

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[k ellis]

Just to give an update on the condition. Randy is doing better and is in fact able to return to work. Out of respect for him and the departed I have not nor will not bring up the discussion of the deceased with him.

What has been said in this thread is alot of hypothetical scenarios and I wanted to just give some insight on Randy.

Randy is a very straightforward instructor with a keen eye for the standards PADI has in place for any level of training. I can guarantee with any level of certainty that he would not have intentionaly put himself or the other diver in any degree of danger.

Randy has taught my rescue class and when that standards and I personaly was ready to crawl out of the pool and lump him one but he was only doing what the standards said had to be taught.

Randy is a career diver with experience in Under Water Demolitions teams (Navy) and the transformation to what we now know as Navy Seals. Randy opened his buisness because he had a passion to dive and a passion to show others the under water world. So much in fact that he remains one of the only 2 brick and morter stores remaining in Tulsa. and the immediate surrounding area.

His list of credentials backs his love of the sport and even when confronted with impossible odds he never pushes any students to do what they are not comfortable in. He finds a way to help them accell to be the best that they can be and achieve their goals.

He like any dive shop owner has a unique and proud list of divers who like myself would go to bat for him and never let his side of the story go untold.

I can also tell you though by the kind of person he is and the heart he bares this is a sad situation he will carry with him for life. Let no one think less then he is the best of the best in my eyes and the eyes of thousands of other divers he has taught over the years.