Missing Divers - Komodo National Park

[DandyDon]

A bit obscure for me! Which paper?

I'm glad to see that enough objective evidence has now been marshalled to silence the people intent on assuring us that Komodo Dragons are no more dangerous than kitty cats, and the stranded divers must therefore have exaggerated/invented their drama. Presumably these people have a vested interest in the dive operator not being held to blame in any way for what happened. I still think they're culpable.

Perhaps the operator would like to come on here (declaring who they are) and explain how the incident occurred, whether they (the operator) feel they could have done anything differently, and whether they intend to amend their practices for the future. I'm sure they've been reading this thread. If they don't come on that will be tantamount to a statement that they don't intend to change anything, which after this controversy may not help their commercial position in the future.

Oh, they may well not be. Many operators don't come on here; glad you do as you contribute a lot, but they may not even know about the discussion. I doubt this thread would come up on a Google search of their name - whatever it was.

I would like to know the answer to the girl's statement tho: "The party surface after 65 minutes, as arranged, 30 yards from the boat but the crew have their backs to the divers and do not see them. 'We blow whistles but still the crew don't respond, so we put up an inflatable 4fthigh orange marker buoy, again to no avail,' says Charlotte." Just because I read it in online news does not make it true, but it sounds like someone I'd never want to dive with anywhere, much less an adventure area like there.

 

[PeCeDiver]

If you need a babysitter while diving, don't go to Komodo. If you can't handle very strong currents, don't go to Komodo. If you are not comfortable with diving solo, don't go to Komodo. If you can't shoot an SMB properly while drifting, ... don't go to Komodo. Komodo is for advanced divers.

About the diving solo part - even if you start a dive as a buddy team, there is no garantue that you will finish the dive as a buddy team, and it will nobodies fault, only the current! If you are more streamlined than your buddy, the current will move you faster and you will loose track of your buddy very quickly.

Don't blame the diveop unless they made a severe mistake. If you go diving in Komodo, you choose to go there and you accepted the risk that comes with unpredictable strong currents.

 

[DandyDon]

If you need a babysitter while diving, don't go to Komodo. If you can't handle very strong currents, don't go to Komodo. If you are not comfortable with diving solo, don't go to Komodo. If you can't shoot an SMB properly while drifting, ... don't go to Komodo. Komodo is for advanced divers.

About the diving solo part - even if you start a dive as a buddy team, there is no garantue that you will finish the dive as a buddy team, and it will nobodies fault, only the current! If you are more streamlined than your buddy, the current will move you faster and you will loose track of your buddy very quickly.

Don't blame the diveop unless they made a severe mistake. If you go diving in Komodo, you choose to go there and you accepted the risk that comes with unpredictable strong currents.

Pece, I agree with every statement there, but still question one quoted from one of the tourists: "...30 yards from the boat but the crew have their backs to the divers and do not see them." I've dived with group leaders in Roatan and Belize, leaders of smaller groups in Cozumel, less protective skippers & crews in other places, and those who said they were simply the boat drivers - diving up to us. I try to be solo diving safe in any situation as I tend to follow my camera too much, and my luck with buddies watch me has been marginal; in San Juan Islands near Seattle, the current kept pulling us apart and spreading us all over the washing machine. Caca happens. But I question a crew that does not watch for divers in all directions, if that is true...???

For us here learning from others, I also suggest the Lost At Sea link below...

 

[Wisnu]

If I have to gues,
indeed they surfaced 30 ft from the boat - but very unlikely they immediately blow the whistle when they looked all or most of the crews was busy helping the other divers struggling to climb the boats - and they assumed the boat crew had seen them; which was not the case as again all the crew was busy - the indonesia boat crew typically very attentive to help divers.
When they realized, say 1 min. later - with 3 knot (not unusual) current they're 300 ft from the boat - and the crew still busy. 5 min. later when the crew finished helping the divers, they're 1800 ft from the boat, probably at that time a mound or small island obstruct the crew's view.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If you need a babysitter while diving, don't go to Komodo. If you can't handle very strong currents, don't go to Komodo. If you are not comfortable with diving solo, don't go to Komodo. If you can't shoot an SMB properly while drifting, ... don't go to Komodo. Komodo is for advanced divers.

About the diving solo part - even if you start a dive as a buddy team, there is no garantue that you will finish the dive as a buddy team, and it will nobodies fault, only the current! If you are more streamlined than your buddy, the current will move you faster and you will loose track of your buddy very quickly.

Don't blame the diveop unless they made a severe mistake. If you go diving in Komodo, you choose to go there and you accepted the risk that comes with unpredictable strong currents.

Pretty much ... it's tough to compare the place to Belize or Roatan, because at least the conditions I've experienced in those three places are not similar. Currents on a lot of the sites in Komodo weren't just strong ... they were variable. They'd pull you in one direction after another.

From the accounts I read, it sounds like the crew had their backs to these divers because they were busy picking up the other team. In that case, I can easily see this happening. From 30 yards away, currents could've been pulling the boat in one direction and the divers in another altogether. Current and wind could've produced waves that would make it difficult to see divers in the water ... or even a safety sausage unless it was a pretty large one.

My question wouldn't be why it happened ... I've been there, and can easily envision why. My question would be was the potential for it happening properly explained to these divers before taking them to that site? Some of these sites (that one being among them) are KNOWN for strong, variable currents. If these divers were not fully equipped and prepared to deal with it, they should not have taken them there.

On the other hand, the fact that they stayed together and survived the ordeal suggests that they WERE prepared ... in which case, it boils down to "stuff happens". Diving's like that sometimes ... especially at advanced dive sites in remote locations.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[peterbj7]

You're missing the point that they had a DM with them who was a member of staff, yet it seems she wasn't equipped to attract the boat's attention. The customers might reasonably have assumed that so long as they were with her they were relatively protected. It seems that in those circumstances she was just another diver.

 

[Kim]

You're missing the point that they had a DM with them who was a member of staff, yet it seems she wasn't equipped to attract the boat's attention. The customers might reasonably have assumed that so long as they were with her they were relatively protected. It seems that in those circumstances she was just another diver.

So? You appear to believe that her function should have been that of a lifeguard. I think she's just a guide. On top of that they apparently had whistles, and at least 1 sausage. I personally think that EVERY diver in the group should have had their own whistles, and decent sausages. Why is this the responsibilty of the dive op to ensure, and not the divers themselves?

I think Bob just summed it up very well.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You're missing the point that they had a DM with them who was a member of staff, yet it seems she wasn't equipped to attract the boat's attention. The customers might reasonably have assumed that so long as they were with her they were relatively protected. It seems that in those circumstances she was just another diver.

Actually, Peter ... I think you're the one who's missing the point. In that part of the world, DM's are dive guides. They're there to find local critters for you. If you need a DM to protect you, you shouldn't be diving in Komodo ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[peterbj7]

This is insane. I never said the DM was a crutch for the others to lean on. She was one of the people who was lost! As she and the boat crew knew the local conditions, you'd have thought that she would preplan her own safety!

Look, I haven't dived in Komodo, but I have done some pretty tricky dives in other parts of the world, including really honking drift dives. Basic safety doesn't vary, though how it's achieved may.

I've had a look at some advertisements for Komodo diving. Nowhere does it say that clients are on their own when it comes to safety, and that the local staff will not use any of their local knowledge to help with problems they are well aware of but visitors may not be. A visitor who has never been there before will quite reasonably expect professional guidance and support appropriate to the physical environment. That is what I would expect and that is what prime facii was not provided in this case.

I'm now out of this thread.

 

[iSTRONG]

Hi,

What a bitchfest.