Missed Safety Stop. Go Back Down?

[CuzzA]

Well like I said, it's pretty common to get certified and then you want to go fishing. Who's going to teach you? PADI? Ha. Nope. You make friends with the vets, join some groups, etc... The guys who've been diving before safety stops became a thing in the 90's. History of the Safety Stop We've heard examples already in this thread.

I do agree Gulf Coast Divers are a different breed. There are some really great divers over here. That have done some amazing diving and discovered a lot of history. It's also my understanding this board wasn't friendly to spearfishermen, still some instances of that today, so it doesn't surprise me that thread would go south. It wasn't until the lionfish invasion that spearfishing became somewhat acceptable here.

Anyway, my experience should be taken with a grain of salt as one person's experience is a small anecdote and likely not reflective of the diving as a whole around here. Again, the purpose was to illustrate missing a safety stop is not a "you're gonna die" big deal.

 

[Sam Miller III]

@CuzzA (who doesn't log dives) posted

"Well like I said, it's pretty common to get certified and then you want to go fishing. Who's going to teach you? PADI? Ha. Nope. You make friends with the vets, join some groups, etc... The guys who've been diving before safety stops became a thing in the 90's. History of the Safety Stop We've heard examples already in this thread."
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Thank you for your research and post.

Considerable history was omitted from the History of the Safety Stop.

It was a pioneer NAUI Instructor Spence Campbell who discovered and publicized "Silent bubbles" way back in the 1960s (?) Andy (LA CO) was at the Catalina Chamber with time on his hands and followed through, published . giving further publicity to Silent bubbles.

"As I recall " from my dusty nitrogen soaked memory there was considerable discussion and concern about the long term effects of exposure to and accumulation of these bubbles creating "Aseptic bone necrosis " (death of bone tissue)
Also "As I recall " there was several experiments and published papers also "As I recall " that verified that long term effects of exposure to and accumulation of these silent bubbles was a precursor to the creation of "Aseptic bone necrosis " (some of you google friendly readers possibly can verify the aforementioned)

It was JYC and crew who suggested a short "safety stop" after every dive. Now a safety stop is standard practice among all the worlds diving community.

The future will determine if a safety stop was the answer.

This generation is the first to have long term exposure to hyperbaric conditions. It is unknown what the future will be presenting to a treating doctor-- will there be a pandemic Aseptic bone necrosis? Or some other unknown unnamed diving ailment. If they treating doctor has some history upon which he can determine the course of treatment the patient the treating doctor will be better prepared if they have a history of the patients past hyperbaric exposures.
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@MaxBottomtime posted
Mia Tegner's death should be a good lesson about going back down just to make a safety stop.

@boulderjohn posted
Right. Her death was solely caused by her decision to go back down for a missed safety stop.....

@kelemvor
"I'm not familiar with that accident and my google fu has only yielded this minimal description:
source: Scripps Institution Researcher Found Drowned Off San Diego

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Interesting post which brought up many dormant memories...which in retrospect I would have liked to remain dormant

I knew Eric and Mia very well and have made numerous dives with them singularly and collectively .

Eric was a very strong Olympic class swimmer and a respected LA Co UW Instructor who taught swimming, diving and SCUBA diving at the local Cal State University at Fullerton.

Mia was a PhD researcher at Scrips Institute of oceanology (SIO) and had concentrated on researching California Abalone for at least 25 years. She was a product of the very demanding SIO dive training program which was created by the late Connie Limbaugh and Andy Rechnitzer which was the basis for the LA County program. Upon the death of Connie in 1959 and the graduation of Andy in 1960 Jim Stewart, who recently passed on (cheek his Bio on this board) became the CDO & DSO of SIO.

So Eric & Mia were both well trained outstanding strong water orientated people. Way above the norm ..

Eric's first wife Kendra had passed away from CA, After about with the local dating scene wanted to meet some one of like interests - I suggested Mia- who I knew.

I was having regular scheduled meeting with Jim Stewart at SIO and asked if he and any suggestions for getting then together - We devised a plan....I would have Eric tag along to the nest meeting , Jim would be absent the next meeting and Mia would take his place -- It happened they met and the rest is history.

We were all using At Pacs at that time (google them) designed and developed by LA Co UW instructor Bill Walters Sr. One unique feature was the weight system which was composed of lead shot and marbles contained in the back plate and secured by trap door -- which we generally wired shut.

Mia sole interest in diving was the California Abalone. In preparing to dive she would put on multilayers of neoprene along with an excessive amount of weights for she would find an abalone and set motionless studying them until her air supply was diminished. She was in every sense of the world a hands on world class scientist.

I will not comment as to what happened to Mia on that terrible day but I will say that those of us who knew her, dove with her had a different scenario to that presented by the news paper...and it was a decompression stop not a safety stop...

Sam Miller,III

 

[NAM001]

Too much talk about nothing really. why do so many take the opinion that there is only one answer. and that one answer fits all. There is no right answer. ou have toe weigh the events of hte dive . Like others have mentioned if you have been deep or near/. at ndl then it would not be a bad ides to go bake for the safety stop. NOt saying it is a good idea. but it is not a bad idea. if yo have used 1/2 your ndl then the safety stop that has been a one rule fit all dives, is not meant for you. You hit ndl (per ypur computer) you may or may not be in deco depending on the algorythm being used or the gradient factors the ndl is based on. We all know that 2 divers will show different ndl's on their computers based on the level of conservatism, etc. Heck the ndl flag has become just that a flag the gets raised when a counter gets to a certain value. have one diver wear 2 computers. does one arm need deco and the other not? The safety stop IS A DECO STOP for situations that may have come into play that we were not aware of. If my dive is such that that IMO i have not involved any issues that may dictate that a deco stop is needed I may skip the safety stop. Most people i now don't know why they so the safety stop other than that is what they were told to do or that the puter whines if they dont. If my dive hits ndl then i do not temp fate, I do teh stop. Right or wrong I am not one to believe that like the 60/100 ft monster it will eat you as soon as yo get to 61/101 ft. If a stop is 3 min and i cut it short by 1 second i am not gong to get locked int he fetal position on the boat deck and head to a chamber. As long as you dive with in the windows of rec diving you should not need to stop at all. Every one makes mistakes. too high asccent rate too deep too long etc and the combined effects may or may not say you should or need to stop.. Thats why safety stops are optional...... A 20 minute dive at 40 is not going to raise any flags in my head. although doing that on the 8th dive of the day is a different set of circumstances.

 

[boulderjohn]

ulderjohn posted
Right. Her death was solely caused by her decision to go back down for a missed safety stop.....

Please note that my response posted there was dripping with sarcasm. He death had nothing to do with redescending to complete a safety stop as is described in the DAN article. The article I quoted on her death in that same post completely contradicts that idea. The summary lists 4 different reasons for her death, none of which was redescending to do a safety stop.

 

[Rred]

Fifty years ago, US divers were taught to make a vertical ascent "following your bubbles" and there were no such thing as "safety stops". Somehow, we survived.

Forty years ago, folks were all impressed by the "French" ascent, coming up at a 45 degree angle so the effective ascent rate was lower. Not that French divers were known to survive better than US divers..

Then somewhere along the way....safety stops got invented while I was out to lunch. Following bubbles became a big no-no after computers were invented. PADI and NOAA revised their charts (anyone remember charts?) by one group, more in line with the USN teachings that "the standard charts are warm water charts, if you are wearing a wetsuit, do not follow them. You need to cold water charts." which meant, go up one or two groups.

So...recompressing in the water? Keeping the fizz off, maybe, while still accumulating more bottom time? I'm not sure the science affirms or rejects that idea YET. From what I've read from places like DAN, there's some serious investigation going on into cell wall permeability and interstitial spaces and some thought that bubbles are more of an effect than a cause. (An effect of the way the gasses are being handled by the body, with other factors determining that.)

DAN, NOAA, USN, these are the folks who tend to have the most expertise in this field. Missing or not making a safety stop, if you've done a conservative dive? Shouldn't be an issue.