Mike Ball Spoil Sport 'rip-off' exceeded $1600

[socaldiver]

Very kind of you to stay on top of this issue so that we can all get the proper clarification.

Nancyscuba, I personally have not had the pleasure of experiencing their liveaboards, but I have no doubt that it is top notch just from what I have read about their operation and from reports posted on several different boards. But that is not the concern. The concern is if it is true they charge a higher rate for Americans and Japanese than other countries and why that would be. I read your explanation a couple of times and I hate to say it, but I don't agree with your scenario.

If you book a trip with someone for next month, next year or even the year after, they will quote you a price and you are required to place a deposit. This reserves your spot on the trip and I believe it also freezes the cost of the trip. Fluctuation of the value of the dollar I don't believe comes into play at that time. But the fluctuation of the dollar is not the issue either. What we are trying to ascertain is the validity of statements made that 2 countries are charged more for the same trip as people from other parts of the world, and if that is true, why.

 

[ozdive]

Five Thumbs Up!
I have read the comments and queries regarding the Mike Ball Dive organization, and having worked with them for nearly ten years as Australia only dive wholesalers, would like to offer another side of the story.

Yes, in the US we have a set rate sheet. However, there are reasons I gladly work under this set of rules. After experiencing a Mike Ball live-aboard dive trip, you will see why they are Australia's premium dive operators. Bottom line is SERVICE.

What you will see is the obvious, great food, best boats on the water, service with staff/guest ratio greater than any other Aussie operator. What you won't see is the fact that Mike Ball has set up a private US reservations office that is open during US hours even tho located in the Cairns office. Included with that are a toll free phone and fax number for instant confirmation of your bookings, as well as instant answers to your answers and requests. Mike Ball also has a full time sales and marketing support team set up for North America, which provides us with materials and back up to assist our clients with the latest information available. All this comes at a price.

There are several Australia dive live-aboard operators that also publish US dollar rates, but do not have the above service items in place. How frustrated would you be if you paid US rates and it still took 5 days to get a reply back from the dive operator in Australia? Just not sure why Mike Ball is taking the heat.

I just feel the term 'rip off' is totally unjustifiable in my eyes. Having been associated with this organization for many years, I can only say wonderful things about them. They continue to set the standard for diving in Australia and consistantly deliver a product we can be proud of with total confidence in client satisfaction. Would you think if they were 'ripping you off' that they would stay in business all these years, let alone be voted best live-aboard company in the world on multiple occastions?

On another note, working with the US/AUS dollar exchange as we do, we have to set our rates sometimes 2-3 years in advance for publication and trade shows. Many times these rates are adjusted (both up and down) according to the flux in the market, and if you look at the fact that this could have worked in reverse for the divers, enough said. It just happens that the Aussie Dollar has fallen and hung unexpectadly.

In summary, Mike Ball Dive is an ethical and professional operation, and is by no means trying to 'scam' the US divers. In fact, they are overly generous in donations to dive related charities, local promotions etc, and give back ten fold! I am tryly sorry some people see things in a different light, and just wanted to share some insider info on this subject.

 

[socaldiver]

Hey thanks for the insight. I don't believe any of the people who have been posting on this thread have stated or accused the operation of a "scam" or "rip off". We were just discussing whether what was posted on other sites has any validity.

I think our concern (maybe more so my curiosity) is if there are different prices for different parts of the world, and if so why. That's all I'm trying to find out. I am sure there is a reasonable explanation that can enlighten everyone.

As I stated in an earlier thread, I have not personally experienced the ops but have heard and read nothing but good things.

 

[Bob3]

Like I mentioned earlier concerning the source of the info, Cyberdiver.net is the last place you should look for accurate information.:nono:
Here's a little more reading on the topic: http://diverlink.com/boycott.htm
There is quite a bit more to that story, but it is best left unsaid at present.

On the flip side of the coin, I can imagine how I'd feel if I stepped off the boat & saw the same trip listed for $1500 less... ;-0 :fury:

 

[large_diver]

This trend is prevelant in all types of industries -- sometimes it comes down to economics....but not all the time.

The worst example is the airline industry, where 2 people on the same flight in the same "class" have paid vastly different amounts for their tickets. Did one person get "ripped off"? I guess it depends on your definition of the term. Airlines employ huge financial staffs to constantly review and revise their pricing structures based on various economic factors. Some seats are sold at the last minute at cheap prices to fill up empty planes. Others are sold in advance at higher prices, perhaps when fuel costs were higher, etc., etc.

Another example could be Suunto dive computers. They are available for cheaper prices in Europe than in the US. Some of this is the shipping cost from Europe to the US. Some of it is the distributor overhead (Sea-Quest) we in the US are paying for.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there are sometimes (not always) legitimate reasons for pricing discrepencies. "Ability to pay" can also come into play here. As some of the replies above have indicated, the costs born by Mike Ball of promoting their business in the US may be what is happening here.

And of course, when people recognize these discrepencies, they will search for ways to get a better deal. And these economics don't lessen the outrage if you are an American paying these higher prices :fury:

 

[detroit diver]

L_D,

I told Natasha that I wouldn't say anything until Mike Ball responded, but I'm biting my lip and it's starting to bleed!! I sure hope they speak up soon or I'm going to need a transfusion...

I really want to hear it straight, not from some public relations firm.

 

[large_diver]

Hey DD,

It will be interesting to hear the response. Of course, unless I win the lottery and my wife miraculously changes her mind about becoming a diver, I don't think I'll be seeing a Mike Ball liveaboard anytime soon.

 

[detroit diver]

L_D,

You never know, do you? It can happen to anyone!

 

[Natasha]

Dear Natasha


Thank you for your calls and emails . Please feel free to post this on your website in its entirety including it being addressed to you.
The tiered pricing system does exist. It has been in place for many years. It originally started out as simply a way of providing a set price in Australia, in Australian dollars, and a set price in the USA, in US dollars. The USA is our prime source of business and as such, it was, and still is, important for us to have a fixed, reliable price in USD that we can offer and market.

In the beginning conversion rates were set close to bank forecasts. However because our rates are set and fixed up to 3 years in advance we ended up actually losing out and making losses in the early 90's. There were other reasons contributing to this but one major factor was a weakening in the USD in relation to the AUD. To counter this in the mid 90's we set our budgets directly targeting the US market and working our costings accordingly. The prices that we charge in USD are not inflated or
an overcharge of US customers. The prices are competitive and good value for the services provided. Our accounts are audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers and in the last fiscal year we made an after tax operating profit of 8%. This was a very good year for us, the second best on record. At such a low profit margin no one could argue that this is an overpriced product.

Of late we have developed a problem with this type of pricing policy because the Australian dollar has taken a substantial dive over the past 18 months and we set our prices nearly 3 years prior. The Australian bank forecasts at the time were a lot more optimistic for the AUD and consequently, now that our dollar has dropped so far, having a fixed US price based on those forecasts makes the difference quite substantial.

Obviously we have not been oblivious to this discrepancy and we have made adjustments to close the gap but these take a long time to implement. The Australian market is also very weak and as such the Australian price has been discounted and this further exacerbates the problem. Even at the discounted price our Australian customer base has gone from 50% in 1995 to 21% in 2001.

We are currently further reviewing our whole pricing structure.
Unfortunately it seems that we may have to increase our Australian price and accept that our Australian customer base will be further eroded. In the end, due to the size of the market, we need the US divers for our company to survive, and if they perceive inequities in our pricing then we must rectify that perception or they will not buy our product. A very large majority of customers that travel with us endorse our product as one
rating very highly in value, services and diving. Nearly all airlines,
hotels and many other recreational products have structured and discounted pricing, in some cases more complex than ours and with greater variations.

What we are doing is not unusual or unethical. We are simply trying to provide a top quality product, with guaranteed departures regardless of numbers of passengers booked, with great diving at a high level of safety, in remote exotic locations, on large, comfortable vessels at the cheapest possible price while still remaining profitable. We trust that those that have travelled with us, and those that will, enjoy a fantastic diving holiday and perceive it as good value.

Regards
Ron Steven
Sales & Marketing Manager
Mike Ball Dive Expeditions
www.mikeball.com

 

[socaldiver]

It is nice that the company responded and explained why they do what they do.

As I stated earlier, I have heard only good things about them, and I wish them continued success.

R.I.P.