Mentors?

[Thiad]

I am extraordinarily blessed in my choices of dive buddies - most all of whom have a wealth of experience and knowledge, love to dive, and love to share those experiences. I learn something new with every single dive whether they intend to teach me something or they don't. I learn just by watching and observing them and incorporate that into my own skill set.

Does this replace many of the certifications I've received? I do believe in those certs, but I like to think that my mentors are either an extending or augmenting the skills taught to me during my courses. I've yet to take a class (any class - diving or whatever), that teaches me everything, or that is really in depth enough to make one an expert. At that point, in steps a mentor.

 

[Diver0001]

Would pros recommending this be in breach of agency standards?

Standards apply to specific programmes defined by the agency. Unless mentoring is an agency programme there are no standards to be applied and therefore none to be broken.

What I'm more interested in, though, is what prompted this question....?

R..

 

[TMHeimer]

Standards apply to specific programmes defined by the agency. Unless mentoring is an agency programme there are no standards to be applied and therefore none to be broken.

What I'm more interested in, though, is what prompted this question....?

R..

Good question, what prompted it. I was just thinking about some recent threads. One concerning OW divers going below 60'. Certain Dive Ops supporting this if the OW diver is accompanied by a DM. But going deeper than 60 gets into an official deep dive, and DMs aren't allowed to teach that--it is beyond the certified diver's training. In fact, I believe it was an instructor who said this should not occur and these dive ops and DMs are in the wrong. I have also recently been trying to be very picky about any advice I may give on SB, as now being a DM I have more responsibilities, both morally and legally. A recent post on this thread pointed out that a new diver may experience his first night dive, or go below 60' for the first time while diving with a mentor---Now if a dive pro suggested that on SB (or anywhere), would that not be in some way an agency violation? I really didn't start the thread for a discussion on the benefits of mentoring--I think we all know it's value. Just curious about this possible "grey" area with pros advising this. If a DM should not be taking an OW diver on a charter below 60', should any dive pro be advising someone to seek an experienced diver (who may not even be a pro) as a mentor to do the very same thing? Obviously advice such as improving one's weighting/trim, finning, gas consumption, buddying techniques, etc. are not areas I'm talking about. Then again, a mentor COULD possibly introduce someone to cave or tech. diving. And a dive pro told the OW diver to find a mentor.

 

[chrpai]

Makes my head spin. I guess that's why I stopped at Rescue diver and never went 'pro'. I just prefer to dive. Sometimes I learn a few things from my buddy mentor and sometimes I teach few things. I don't need no stinking 'rules' from the scuba police.

 

[boulderjohn]

I went out for a dive today with a diver who is looking to get into more advanced diving. I made it clear that I was not his instructor--we were just two guys diving. I gave him some suggestions and showed him a few things. No money changed hands. I got nothing from him other than companionship. He got two bottles of water from me because he forgot to bring some. That's a Mentor relationship.

It is possible he may take some classes from me in the future. Maybe yes. Maybe no. If he does, we will go through a formal process that will establish me as a professional providing a service in return. In that case, I will be his instructor.

 

[TMHeimer]

boulderjohn, I figured the thinking was something along those lines. So if you don't establish that it is an instructor/student relationship, it's pretty difficult to be breaking any agency standards. Therefore, for a dive pro to advise a new diver to seek a mentor, or to give other advice on SB there isn't any breaching of standards because it is assumed the pro is only talking as another diver, and not as a pro. Would that be correct?

 

[NAM001]

lET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND THIS. A DM can not teach a buddy how to take a pic of anything because there is a formal pic taking course. Is that not what goes on when you do a boat dive and the dm teaches you how to do waer entry and exit. I obvoiusly do not understand the cntext of the comment.

I've taken quite a few courses, but due to location have never really had a mentor. I notice that many SBers, pro or not, recommend a mentor at times in lieu of (spending money on) another course. We all know that a DM is not permitted to teach uncertified divers, nor to teach certified ones new stuff. Yet dive pros recommend at times to get a mentor. They don't specifically say that the mentor need be a pro- an instructor or even a DM. Would pros recommending this be in breach of agency standards? What do you think? We also read of people learning stuff along the way and getting into bad habits.

 

[CT-Rich]

Mentoring is the classic way to learn diving. I have a dive buddy who has only a couple of dives under his belt. I enjpoy diving with him and I give him suggestions that he can use. I introduced him to how make a surf entry, mostly because we wanted to make a particular dive and I explained how to pick an entry point and to keep track of the exit point etc. and we had a good time. We spend time driving to dive sites talking about diving, gear, work and a bunch of stuff. I have another dive buddy that has thousands of dives and we do the same thing. That is the way we dive. I know more than some and less than others. I haven't learned the some of the newer stuff and it is fun to talk about how things used to be done. Mentor is just another label, it goes along with OW and AOW, cave diver and all the other ways people label divers (all these certs certainly have made divers label crazy).

Just a reminder, there is no such thing as the SCUBA police. Diving safely is about good judgement and mastery of theory and skills. An OW diver won't be arrested or ticketed or sent to jail for diving to 80 fsw whether or not it was well planned. If an experienced buddy gives advice about gear or type of dive, it is up to the less experienced buddy to judge the quality of the advice or whether a particular activity is safe or not. I am quite capable of giving all sorts of advice about cars, but that doesn't mean sh*t about whether you should take it.

Remember, he is a buddy, not a cop and the only one that monitors your dive is mother nature and her laws. The rules change I suppose if you look at it from the perspective of a Instructor or DM, but I am neither.

 

[TMHeimer]

lET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND THIS. A DM can not teach a buddy how to take a pic of anything because there is a formal pic taking course. Is that not what goes on when you do a boat dive and the dm teaches you how to do waer entry and exit. I obvoiusly do not understand the cntext of the comment.

Well, at least one deep water entry technique is taught in the OW course, so even if it's a different type of entry, the DM may not be teaching anything new, officially...? Good point about camera advice--maybe if the course doesn't really contain any serious safety-related stuff (like also-fish identification, underwater videographer, etc.) it's a different situation?

 

[Rhodesaz]

I'm just an AOW diver, with about 150 dives under my belt. I have no desire to go tech, teach diving, to go pro or anything like that. I'm just a plain ol' recreational diver who enjoys diving. But I want to be better at it. Better at my trim, better at my kicking, better at my air consumption, ect. I understand that if I want to "specialize" I should take the formal class. But I have always suspected (and it has been proven here) there is a lot more to learn that the classes do not teach!! But, the classes are a great starting point.

I would love to have a mentor. Some one I could trust. Someone I respect. Someone I could ask questions of (to better understand the why's or how's of certain details) without being told I need to take this class or that class.

I thought I had found just that someone.

I learned to dive from a ma & pa shop here in Northern Phoenix. I spent almost 20K over the last several years buying equipment, going on trips, taking this class and taking that class. Asking questions.

I left the LDS when it became obvious that every question I asked meant a class needed to be taken "at a cost". The all mighty dollar became more important!!

Maybe my questions are getting more technical now. Maybe today's economy requires the DM or DI to "push" this class or that class. Maybe it's always been this way.

What do I know?

In the mean time, I'll find another LDS that treats me as a person not a cash register. Hopefully, I'll join a club (time permitting) or two and above all, I'LL JUST KEEP DIVING.