Medical questionaire

[fisherdvm]

Let those bad protoplams dive, and maybe we'll weed out the gene pool a little fasters. Unfortunately, all of us will become poor protoplams eventually, given time, high blood pressure, artherosclerosis, tumors, etc. etc, etc...

Treat them protoplams well now, as eventually, you might be one of them.

 

[wreckchick]

You're SO not getting my point.... at all.

Now, I'm really out.

Peace!

R

 

[ERIC.K]

Biscuit 7, you are just the person i'm worried about when it comes to getting on a dive boat after answering yes to a question on a medical questionaire, are you going to keep a closer eye on me, maybe ask me to go to the surface with maybe 700 psi instead of everyone else at 500psi. Maybe you might limit me to say 50 feet instead of everyone at 80 feet just because you are afraid I might sue if i'm involved in an accident, truth of the mater is you can get hauled into court for simply saying something that might offend someone else on the boat. I assume you to not be medically trained, if you are I apologize but I work in a busy metro emergency room and for every 1 person who knows they have high blood pressure there is 5 who are completly unaware. I send previously "healthy" 35 year olds to the cath lab after a heart attack, so for every person on your dive boat who answers yes to a questionaire there are 5 who "think" they are healthy. As for the obese diver you can "see" prior to the dive....ever try to get a 350lbs unconscious person back on a boat? You assume too much, a well controlled hypertensive diver is at no more risk of an in water emergency than anyone else on the boat.

 

[alcina]

Until we have a universal medical release form approved at dive locations world wide we will continue to have untruthful questionaires... So to call ahead and ask what type of Medical release form a diver might need is useless. PADI, SSI, YMCA, and NAUI all need a universal release form that dive locations around the world will accept. IF your certification is PADI then carry around the PADI release form...

A universal medical form isn't going to happen anytime soon. Different countries, heck, even different states or juridictions, may have different requirements. Trying to get every governing body on the planet to agree on what needs to be on the form or to what standard that needs to be would be close to impossible, I'd think. It would be nice to just have something saying "fit to dive" and call it a day, but I doubt that will happen.

So, it isn't useless to call ahead and make sure you have all the paperwork you need. The paperwork required will very likely vary from location to location so it is important to know before you arrive.

The medical forms required don't have a thing to do with agency, at least not here. They have to do with the governing bodies of the location.

 

[ERIC.K]

Biscuit7, I just reread one of your posts and I have to agree with you in reguards to the diver who was informed by his or her physician not to dive, and in the event he dives, and as a result, you, as the divemaster are injured because his failure to adbide to their doctors recomendations not to dive, that is a completly different set of circumstances, and I agree, that person is misrepresenting himself Still I fail to see how someone with a known, completly controlled, medical problem,and cleared to dive by his physician, puts you at risk, and is at greater risk of an in water emergency knowing that there are thousand if not millions of people who have undiagnosed conditions that you as a divemaster are taking out to dive, most likely everyday. As a registered nurse in a busy emergency room knows, I put myself at risk everyday, My decisions, My actions, My use of gloves, masks, and gowns during trauma. I can reduce the risk, but if i'm uncomfortable with those risks, how small they might be...well then i should just get out. as a divemaster you can also reduce those risks, and if it means not diving with someone who has answered truthfully on a questionaire then so be it., But my point is you are never going to be without risk of someone who believes himself to be healthy and later finds out that he wasn't, you might even find out after you pull him out of the water unconscious. The questionaires are useless and doesn't protect anyone, I believe them to even promote medical descrimination

 

[Saturation]

A dive operation can refuse a diver's business for any reason. In most instances of medical forms, its partly related to what a shop's liability carrier wishes them to accept as acceptable risks on their boats or operation. When in doubt, its easier to deny a diver than consider a risk, particularly if a shop worries about liability premium increases should an accident occur in their operation.

If a diver lies on the form and subsequently has an accident even if unrelated to a medical condition, the shop can use the lie as a defense against liability, pointing to the medical condition as contributory or associated with an accident.

The medical release does not absolve the dive shop from liability, but rather consoles the shop that the medical issue of the patient is not one for concern. It however, remains the shops perogative to decide whether to admit the diver or not.

Releases signed in the USA do not have jurisdiction outside the USA. As a legal document it maybe worthless, as a document reflecting the diver's general health, its valuable if it contains accurate information from the time of the examination to the time of the dive.

Suppose a healthy diver has been recently diagnosed with say.....hypertension and is currently being succesfully treated for said hypertension, and has been given complete permission by a cardiologist to continue diving. With that said, when this diver flies across the Globe to exotic locale and is denied diving priveleges due in part to answering yes to a High blood pressure question on a medical questionaire despite being released by a MD to dive. Is it then not surprising to most that a diver might not devulge his or her complete medical information on that questionaire? My point is, after being released by a Physician does this give a dive master authority to deny a diver to dive, can a dive master still deny a diver with a medical release provided by and signed by the MD? and if a diver is denied privleges to dive at a dive shop say in the Florida Keys, would he simply drive down the road and sign up at that dive shop and then fail to give a complete medical history of himself in order to dive? this is clearly a liability issue, can a dive master, whom in years past have been held responsible for diver deaths decide who he is comfortable diving with and in turn refuse to allow a diver to dive? Does a dive master know enough about human anatomy and the cardiovascular system to make an informed decision to allow or disallow a diver who has been cleared by his doctor to dive? I've read quite alot of post reguarding diver deaths on this board and wonder how many of them might have "fibbed" about their medical histories, I also know that if a diver with a cardiac problem does suffer some type of diving accident in which CPR has to be performed, one would perform CPR on him or her the same way despite a known of unknown cardiac problem.....So why the medical questionaire?-

 

[mdjh51]

Hey brainsurgeon.

The only thing that I can think of as far as family hsitory goes are the families with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy where the men tend to drop over dead in their 20s or 30s with no notice. Still, not a very good screening method, and a poor return on the effort.
B

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Hey brainsurgeon.

The only thing that I can think of as far as family hsitory goes are the families with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy where the men tend to drop over dead in their 20s or 30s with no notice. Still, not a very good screening method, and a poor return on the effort.
B

Agreed

 

[PairofMedics]

I have asthma, and I would not disclose this on a medical questionaire on a boat etc. I would to a regular instructor or buddy with whom I would be establishing some type of trust relationship. Prior to beginning diving, I took an objective look at my medical history with my regular asthma doc, and got checked out by a DAN recommended doc as well. Both cleared me to dive, since my asthma is extremely well controlled (I have never had an attack), and the factors associated with diving are not likely to be risk factors for me. By doing this, I feel that I have met the standard of necessary care and judgement of risk associated, and I am willing to accept the consequences of the decision I have made. That being said, I am not willing to allow someone else to hear the word 'asthma' and make a judgement for me just because they need to cover their *****.

I agree with you....you risk more everytime you get into your car!!! I say enjoy the sport and find a dive buddy who you can trust!

 

[DI_Guy]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread as it pertains to me now.

Here is my history. I am 55 and I have always wanted to dive. I have been diving for 3 years now under some pretty adverse conditions. Fast current, cold water, low VIS. I am COLD WATER certified. (It's required is some places here). Everyone I dive with says I am a great dive buddy, not a risk taker, by the book.. I never get sick, only 2 sick days in the last 18 years. I have never smoked, not obese (190 lbs & 6'1" tall ) (BP 118 / 70), I eat well watch my trans fats and cholesteral (3.9). I dive twice each week. My last dive was a long drift dive where I had to walk back 1/2 mile to my car with all my gear on (cold water diver here) I sound pretty healthy.

Oct 10 2006, weather is getting colder, we had an early snow fall. I experience angina pain climfing a small hill. I get it checked out and was sent to emergency. No heart attack and all looks normal. Still suffering angina and was put on beta blockers and carried a Nitro spray. I went for the stress test and scored a -10. I went for an angiogram and the left main coronary artery was 90% blocked. Angioplasty and a stent were not possible so I had to go for a triple bypass on Dec 18th 2006. Because of my good physical health, I was discharged 4 days after the operation. I am at home recuperating now but I think my diving days are done. My Cardiac Surgeon says "NO WAY", you'll be diving again in the fall of 2007. I am not a foolish person as I work the medical field and I wont dive again until I get a great score on future stress tests.

I know Coronary Artery Disease (CAD) takes decades to form but something changed rapidly in my condition. Maybe some plaque broke loose and increasd the stenosis. I am lucky to be alive, they say. I will wait and see how the dive ops repond to health history in a couple of years.
It used to be patients in there 60's & 70's coming in with CAD. Now patients in their 50's are coming in with it. My Cardiologist said that he is concerned that in the future in North America, it will be patients in their 40's because of all the junk food out there.

I really like Catherine's views on this topic but in reality, which DM or Dive Op is going to allow me to dive with them. We don't sue very quickly here in Canada and I have told my family, if I die while diving, I would die doing what I love. There will be no law suits on my side. I never even thought of a DM or dive buddy getting injured trying to save me and this concerns me.

I am afraid my diving days are over and I am sad.

This has been a great thread. Any comments ?