Medical questionaire

[Web Monkey]

Suppose a healthy diver has been recently diagnosed with say.....hypertension and is currently being succesfully treated for said hypertension, and has been given complete permission by a cardiologist to continue diving. With that said, when this diver flies across the Globe to exotic locale and is denied diving priveleges due in part to answering yes to a High blood pressure question on a medical questionaire despite being released by a MD to dive.

That depends on if your blood pressure is actually high, and the meds you're taking. DAN has several extensive articles on the subject.

I certainly wouldn't dive with untreated hypertension, however if it's controlled perfectly, and the meds are compatible with diving (some aren't), I'd have no problem checking off the "healthy" box and going diving.

I wouldn't be diving with high blood pressure (or low blood pressure) since passing out underwater can ruin your whole day, as can a stroke or heart-attack.

Note that I'm not a doctor, however I did recently get a bill from one.

Terry

 

[Scuba Do]

thank-you.

So...you book an dive trip. You pay. You fly there, and then you get handed this list of questions. Can you imagine if you turned the tables, showed up and ask to see the updated physicals for the boat captain, the dive guide, etc?....or you were not going to pay for the space they held for you? Wonder how that would fly?

How many consumers get on a dive boat and ask the captain for his liscense?... the results of his last urine test...or you are not holding up your side of the contract?

I am surprised so many people comply with this. You, the consumer and the dive operator, in a legal situation are on opposite sides. They are not your partners. You advocate for you, they advocate for them. To call people liers or dishonest for not gobbling this medical questionaire stuff when the whole thing is completely unilateral, seems very unsophisticated to me, from a consumer standpoint.

Now..if they want to make this very plain in nice big readable print on their website, BEFORE you book, so you can know what they demand, then they have that right, and you have the right to book someplace else if you want.

(I love talking to myself in here)

Come on Catherine. Don't hold your feelings in. Tell us how you really feel about this! (Just teasing). Actually, it is not as bad as you make it out to be. Yes, the dive operation is out to protect itself, but they are not out to do you harm. They just want protection if something happens to you as a result of your health. Actually, they just want to satisfy the insurance company so that they can have coverage at a reasonable rate - relatively speaking. You just want to dive. You fill out the forms and sign it and both sides get what they want. If the dive shop did not have you fill out the form, the insurance would be so high that you would not want to dive. So, instead of looking at the form as the intrusion that it is, think of it as a way to allow the dive company to provide you service at a reasonable rate - relatively speaking.

 

[Cacia]

You sound like a reasonable person!

yes, that's how I look at it. I draw a line through the whole row of boxes and sign my name.

As far as the question about hypertension, I think it asks " have you ever been diagnosed with any of the following...."

The blood pressure thing is getting pretty strict. I think a diastolic of 80 puts you into borderline hypertension these days...I wonder what percentage of adults are technically hypertensive. I bet it is very high.

 

[Scuba Do]

You sound like a reasonable person!

You obviously are an astute judge of character!!!

 

[DocVikingo]

Hi catherine96821,

The major players, e.g., The National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute; American Heart Association, classify BP readings of 140/90 or higher as HPB.

Pressures between 120-139/80-89 are considered prehypertension.

About 1/3rd of the adult population has elevated BPs.

You can read about the topic in great detail at:

Seventh Report of the Joint National Committee on Prevention, Detection, Evaluation, and Treatment of High Blood Pressure (JNC 7)
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/hypertension/jnc7full.pdf

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[wreckchick]

Who has the most at stake for diving with a condition? i.e., incentive not to die...

Who has the most education...the average scuba operator, or the average dive client?

Who has the best access to health care..the average dive guide or the average dive client?

How's the view from up there?

R

 

[Fordan]

So...you book an dive trip. You pay. You fly there, and then you get handed this list of questions. Can you imagine if you turned the tables, showed up and ask to see the updated physicals for the boat captain, the dive guide, etc?....or you were not going to pay for the space they held for you? Wonder how that would fly?

I don't know about anyone else, but even as a newbie diver I generally strongly suspect that when I go off to a dive trip, they're likely going to want a medical questionaire completed, probably the PADI/RTSC one. I also know that if I'm being honest, I'm going to have to check boxes Y on it. So knowing this, I have like 10-12 copies of the PADI form completed, complete with Doctor signoff on the back, and stick them as many places as I stick copies of my certification.

I also make sure that when I book the dive, I tell them that I will be checking Y, and make sure that's going to be ok with them. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

How many consumers get on a dive boat and ask the captain for his liscense?... the results of his last urine test...or you are not holding up your side of the contract?

Asking about the qualifications of the staff certainly seems acceptable to me, although most people don't do it. Asking for an copy of the analysis of a urine test would be over the line, although asking about drug testing wouldn't, IMHO. The trick here is that you need to ask this ahead of time, since most people don't bother.

Now..if they want to make this very plain in nice big readable print on their website, BEFORE you book, so you can know what they demand, then they have that right, and you have the right to book someplace else if you want.

My impression was that it was fairly standard, so should be assumed, just like that they'll ask to see certification cards. While not everyone may do it, it isn't shocking when it happens.

 

[knotical]

This thread got me thinking and digging a little deeper.

The medical was developed for those taking classes and includes wording like “during the scuba training program”, and “before participating in recreational diver training”. Unless modified, it really doesn’t seem to apply to trips or dive excursions.

There are alternatives.
For those operations associated with PADI, other releases which could be used include:
“Boat Travel and Scuba Diving Voluntary Release, Waiver, and Assumption of Risk” and
“Travel and Excursions Liability Release and Assumption of Risk Agreement”
Neither asks medical questions.

I realize each operation must decide what paperwork to use, partly based on the local legal and litigation environment, but I don’t recall ever seeing these or anything similar used. I wonder why not.

However, I will continue to take doctor’s releases with me, rather than risk not being able to dive. It doesn’t much matter to me why the dive operator chooses to require a medical. If I want to play in his pond, I’ll follow his rules.

 

[Cacia]

How's the view from up there?

R

I knew that could be construed as offensive to some. My point is that an individual traveling on a dive vacation is usually the best person to make decisions about their own health risks. They generally have the education, the income and the first hand knowledge about their own history to best make these judgements, in partnership with their regular physician.

For a scuba instructor to send them off for "clearance" to a local doctor for one consultation without labs, tests, or any knowledge of the history is not an acceptable situation to me. For those who find this reasonable, they have that option. For someone like me, we can book elsewhere or sign off.

Carrying the waiver with your physician's signature is certainly a good option for people caught in the middle with ambivalent feelings on this subject. I think this thread will be informative and useful if people see this as an option. Also, for operator's to see the issue from a client's point of view might make pre-arrival paperwork more timely.

As far as this being standard, I have not been asked to do this in Palau, Indonesia, or my eight years living in the Caribbean. I suspect it is becoming more standard, which is why I see this as a valuable debate.

The legal department at PADI once told me the biggest liability mistake operators make is using the wrong waiver with certified divers. They told me that you actually create more liabilty by using the "training" language on the waiver meant for classes, not certified divers. I think it is a reasonable and valuable discussion.

The scuba industry often discusses the demographics and disposable income of the dive client at various meetings I have attended.

It seems fair to discuss the reverse in context of who makes decisions regarding my own health.


I'm not sure your comment "how is the view from up there" really contributes much to the discussion. I would like to see some reciprocity in the debate over the issues. Consumers have a voice to be heard that is as legitimate as an operator's steps to limit their own liabilty.

 

[wreckchick]

Here's my view, if your take is to lie on the medical if asked questions the operator finds pertinent or book 'elsewhere' where they either don't care or you feel their being too invasive, I think you need to examine why you're being so closed about your condition(s).

If you can't take the time to get a PADI (or whatever) medical signed off to present to an operator if they ask any medical questions, I suspect that it's because you wouldn't be signed off. I know you work in medicine, so getting a cleared medical shouldn't be an issue, unless you shouldn't be diving.

If you come to where I am, I suggest 'book elsewhere' since I now know that your signature means nothing.

Rachel

P.S. Offended, you bet.