Medical Question - is there a Dr. in the house?

[jefffalcone]

This one has me stumped, I even called a Hyperbaric consult and he just had inferences and guesses. My consultant and I are in complete agreement that this person, regarless of the effect of the steroid on DCS should not be diving. If I had to clear this person to dive under institutional auspices ... there's no way in hell I would.

Thanks for weighing in thalassamania.

If you're stumped I'm not expecting that everyone will be. I told him that it scares the **** out of me, but people generally won't listen unless you have some data to back up what you're saying.

Since I know he will ignore my advice and still go diving, I told him to take extra long surface intervals, and extra slow ascents with a longer than normal safety stop and maybe an extra stop.

He replied that he is a new diver so he'll be concentrating on slow ascents. I shook my head and went looking for a way to talk him out of his trip.

 

[Thalassamania]

... he is no different than any other diver that works out or happens to have higher than normal natural testosterone.

People that use anabolics for bodybuilding purposes are not the same as people using street drugs to get high... but that isn't a debate for this forum. ... and I am a natural bodybuilder, so no anabolics here.

He is very different from "other" divers, and yes ... this is a perfectly good place for a discussion of steriod use and diviing.

Forgetting about the physiologic for a moment we can start with the narcissism and body image issues that drive someone to inject steroids and move on to the questions of mental balance and stability ... this is not someone upon whom I would want to depend in the water.

 

[jefffalcone]

I'm more interested in the medical issues. Let's leave a discussion for the phycological impact of steroids for another thread.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm more interested in the medical issues. Let's leave a discussion for the phycological impact of steroids for another thread.

That's fine.

 

[PTAaron]

To the OP: The point I was trying to make is maybe there is a misunderstanding of terminology that is causing large part of the concern. People refer to a "positive nitrogen balance" in bodybuilding terms to mean a time the body is in an anabolic (muscle building) state vs a "negative nitrogen balance" or catabolic state. It is more a reference to amino acid/protein synthesis than it is to actual gas retention in the tissues.

 

[MASS-Diver]

To the OP: The point I was trying to make is maybe there is a misunderstanding of terminology that is causing large part of the concern. People refer to a "positive nitrogen balance" in bodybuilding terms to mean a time the body is in an anabolic (muscle building) state vs a "negative nitrogen balance" or catabolic state. It is more a reference to amino acid/protein synthesis than it is to actual gas retention in the tissues.

Exactly, body builders are not talking about nitrogen gas, they mean amino acids. Taking steroids is not going affect off gasing.

 

[ScubaSarus]

Thanks for correcting me Mass-Diver. I never imagines someone would be asking about safely diving on a banned substance. This is a serious concern with this steroid and one that targets muscles that's usually reserved for animal chemistry. I'm wondering if this guy has the mindset to be a good diver let alone a good dive buddy.

Given:
One isn't going to call DAN about diving on a banned substance and there is no physician to ask.
We are it?

Finaject (Trenbolone Acetate)

Legitimate Medical Use

None. It hasn't been produced in years.

Side Effects

Very toxic to the kidneys. In addition, users can experience headaches, oily skin, acne, nasal bleeding and an increase in aggression. Women can also experience the development of male-like characteristics including unwanted hair and a deepening of the voice.
Warning signs requiring medical attention

Dark colored urine, back pain (in the kidney area) and blood in the urine are signs of kidney toxicity.
Identifying the Steroid
Injectable form.

These days, the only way to get trenbolone is to extract it from cattle implants. The trenbolone in implants is an acetate ester meaning its extremely fast acting. The injected esters will quickly release the drug into your body; trenbolone has a quick clearance time from the body as well. Therefore, an athlete needs to inject trenbolone frequently.

There is also a significant risk of damage to the heart, which is made of muscle tissue. Anabolic steroids can lead to an expansion of the cardiac muscle, which can cause heart attacks.

 

[TSandM]

This is an ugly drug.

But the question about nitrogen retention is just confusion about the difference between nitrogen-containing compounds and molecular nitrogen gas. Steroids do not affect on and off-gassing. They do promote the incorporation of dietary nitrogen (eg. amino acids) into compounds that remain in the body (eg. proteins). This has nothing to do with diving.

The cardiac effects of anabolic steroids are real, but show up over fairly long term use. The psychological effects (in particular, risk taking and aggression) require far shorter use to become evident. The drug is obviously not one to be recommended, either for the user's long term health, or for diving, but nitrogen kinetics are not the reason.