Medical Privacy Concern

[Riger]

I witnessed a Parent, whilst filling out this form for their young child (12?), filling out all the no's. The child said "But Daddy what about my Asthma?" to which the Parent made very strong body language suggestions that the child keep that quiet. Fortunately the Dive Instructor saw this too and stated very clearly to the Parent that no matter what he now wrote on the form, he (the instructor) wanted a clearance certificate from a Doctor before he or anyone at that Centre would take the child into the water.

So, with specific regard to the statement that lying on the form can kill you, I would have to agree. In this instance, by lying, you would have removed another safety net which, had you sought professional guidance, may other wise not have allowed you to enter the water.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[redrover]

You've sort of swerved into my point...

I'm a DiveMaster who works with students as well as certified divers on a charter boat.

Your attitude is understandable from the romantic "bucket list" standpoint, but has total disregard for someone like me who is willing to risk my life to save your's. You have no right to knowingly do anything that could potentially reduce the amount of time I might have left.

Unfortunately, I have had occassion to put myself at risk to save another diver's life. Fortunately, the diver's life was saved and I was fine. But I can assure you if I should die or get hurt trying to save someone who shouldn't have been diving in the first place I'm gonna be really pissed.

At a minimum it would seem to be appropriate to let me know that - at least when it comes to diving - you have less regard for your life than I do. I could then make an informed decision about whether I'm gonna risk my life to save your's. (Don't worry, I'll still jump off the boat. But that's MY decision, not your's.)

When this defense comes up, I too feel many people fail to grasp the full circle regarding personal choice. Are you in effect stating; I choose to be obligated to do everything in my power to save another certified divers life on the grounds that by his certification (medical release implied), I have no expectation of ever being put in that situation?

 

[RJP]

The medical questionaire is worded so vaguely (do you take prescription meds with the exception of BC or anti-malarials) that I fail to see where there is any issue with privacy. Ok so you take meds, the form doesn't ask whether it's viagra or thorazine.




The common use term for this is "Risk Management" and everyone is entitled to choose how much risk they are willing to tolerate.

As an instructor I have absolutely NO obligation to teach anyone. I can decline a student because they have bad breath, or I don't like their t-shirt or attitude or whatever.

Just as it is the students right to choose their acceptable level of risk, it is also the instructors.

If a prospective student comes to me with a medical condition that I feel raises a greater risk than I am willing to accept I will decline that student, regardless of whether or not they get a doctor to sign off on a form.

If I find out that a student lied on their medical, I will remove them from class.

Everyone has the right to accept whatever level of risk they choose, but no one has the right to force higher risk on another. Someone hiding a medical condition potentially incompatible with diving is subjecting everyone they dive with to an unknown greater risk.

Steve - I'm glad to see that my five year old is not the ONLY one who gets it!

 

[NudeDiver]

Nope, I'd jump for joy. I hate the damn things. Me hating it does not alter the fact that under the current legal system, I have to deal with it. As i said earlier, until you find some way to alter the system, you advising someone to lie puts others at risk.

OK then, this is the heart of it. You're only collecting the specific information on the form BECAUSE it is on the form. It doesn't have anything to do with increased safety risk to the diver, you, the propeller on the boat, or anything else. You only insist on knowing the specifics of whatever someone's issues may be, because it's on the form. New form, now you don't claim to need to know anything other than the person has been to a doctor and "cleared".

 

[NudeDiver]

What is not fine is lying on the form and then diving with me when you shouldn't be diving.

Yes. That's what you keep saying. I understand that's what you keep saying. Unfortunately, you have not made a convincing case to me and several others that this is a reasonable position in any way.

 

[DBailey]

OK then, this is the heart of it. You're only collecting the specific information on the form BECAUSE it is on the form and I want the diver to be informed of certain health conditions and diving. It doesn't have anything to do with increased safety risk to the diver, you, the propeller on the boat, or anything else. You only insist on knowing the specifics of whatever someone's issues may be, because it's on the form. New form, now you don't claim to need to know anything other than the person has been to a doctor and "cleared".

I added the bolded part to your post. If needed, I want the medical form to be the spark that helps the lightbulb turn on in the divers head.

 

[NudeDiver]

Props to the OP for protecting his privacy!

 

[RJP]

Yes. That's what you keep saying. I understand that's what you keep saying. Unfortunately, you have not made a convincing case to me and several others that this is a reasonable position in any way.

"none so blind as those who will not see..."

 

[Divenomad]

OK then, this is the heart of it. You're only collecting the specific information on the form BECAUSE it is on the form. It doesn't have anything to do with increased safety risk to the diver, you, the propeller on the boat, or anything else. You only insist on knowing the specifics of whatever someone's issues may be, because it's on the form. New form, now you don't claim to need to know anything other than the person has been to a doctor and "cleared".

Please see my response about knowledge of a specific condition, and the different emergency procedures required of a hypoglycemic shocked diver. I do not advocate the form because I like it, I use it because I have to. Lying on the form puts me at greater risk, and as I've shown with my example, the diver as well. Use your form, but if there is a yes, then I want to know some specifics because it can and does affect emergency procedures. There are at least two conditions, diabetes and asthma, which require specific protocols and affect how a person dives and the people around them. Failure to provide this information violates others right to know about increased risk.Your rights end at mine, and you have responsibilities to go along with those rights. it's a package deal, you can't unbundle them. To attempt it does not speak well of you. I would appreciate a detailed explanation of how you would arrange fully informed consent of all parties given the above two medical conditions without some sort of form in a legally defensible way. Until then, your opinion has no merit.

I note that you made no comment on the specific examaple and chose to take my response out of context of the entire post. Nice edit.

-Nomad

 

[uncleavi]

Fill out the form.
If you lie and then your family sues me because your dead then they lose.