Medical Privacy Concern

[NudeDiver]

I'm trying to figure out what you would consider better, and how you to go about it.

Already offered numerous suggestions.

I have greater concerns about my privacy than you do

Unlikely. For example, when I signed up for my first course, I debated whether I should even provide my actual name, or an alias.

Many people lie on the form. I know this, every shop, boat, resort and pro knows it.

A ha....so, you KNOW the form may or may not be providing you with accurate information. You are informed of this already. Knowing this, you can choose to believe the form or not - and plan your dives accordingly. From my perspective, you have your "informed consent".

The bloody form is just a CYA thing.

Which has been my point all along. It's CYA.

What i don't understand is that you seem to advocate protecting yourself and leaving everyone else hanging.

Oh please. With those massive waivers that relieve you of everything short of making me walk the plank? Come on.

 

[Divenomad]

Already offered numerous suggestions.

Unlikely. For example, when I signed up for my first course, I debated whether I should even provide my actual name, or an alias.

A ha....so, you KNOW the form may or may not be providing you with accurate information. You are informed of this already. Knowing this, you can choose to believe the form or not - and plan your dives accordingly. From my perspective, you have your "informed consent".

Which has been my point all along. It's CYA.

Oh please. With those massive waivers that relieve you of everything short of making me walk the plank? Come on.

Waivers are just a piece of documentation to show that the signatory knew the risks, It shows some degree of due diligence. it's not possible to sign away your rights. Waiver is a misnomer. I cannot be relieved of my responsibilities, whatever you sign.

Informed consent is a legal term. Neither your perspective or mine will impress a court. Your suggestions are not legally defensible, All I ask is that you provide some plan to make them so. So far, you have not done so. Everyone knows it CYA, as it in every profession, other than belaboring the point that you do not like it, you have said nothing substantive.

As to privacy, I highly doubt that you have a similar background to mine. I am forced to opine that you have no privacy if you have an internet account OR a SSN/ SIN OR bank account, OR a job. Privacy does not exist if someone wants to know about you. Only multiple legal, forged identities rotated every thirty days or so offers any protection, and then only for a little while, if someone invests in the search. And that's not the government, they are a joke, it's the private contractors you need to worry about. Privacy is dead. Only courtesy, disinterest in you and a bland life protects you now. It sucks, but that's the truth.

-Nomad

 

[gene02]

Fill out the form.
If you lie and then your family sues me because your dead then they lose.

There ya go that is what I am talking about.

This is very a good topic.

Medical privacy is a very valid concern.

Another concern is informed consent, and this issue cuts both ways. The diver needs to know any potential risks they are taking by diving with a known medical condition, and so does the dive operator by accepting the diver as a client / student.

My feeling is there are ethical and moral issues invloved beyond the obvious safety issues when a diver fails to disclose a physical condition that would prohibit them from diving.

I think the waiver forms could probably be improved to give a bit more privacy, but in the end I think it is important that the people you dive with (buddies, DM's, Instructors, etc.) know enough of your history, for certain health conditions, so that THEY can make an "informed consent" decision regarding whether to dive with you.

Best wishes.

Again this is not about diving and knowing you have not been released to dive. It is about not sharing with the dive shop that you hava a condition that the DR released you to dive with. In other words DR said I could do dive with XYZ condition and you don't need to know about my condition because my DR said I am at no more risk than Joe student over there. I'm sorry but it just isn't your business and if I have to lie to keep it my business only because you ask question that you should not be asking then flame me.

 

[gene02]

I witnessed a Parent, whilst filling out this form for their young child (12?), filling out all the no's. The child said "But Daddy what about my Asthma?" to which the Parent made very strong body language suggestions that the child keep that quiet. Fortunately the Dive Instructor saw this too and stated very clearly to the Parent that no matter what he now wrote on the form, he (the instructor) wanted a clearance certificate from a Doctor before he or anyone at that Centre would take the child into the water.

So, with specific regard to the statement that lying on the form can kill you, I would have to agree. In this instance, by lying, you would have removed another safety net which, had you sought professional guidance, may other wise not have allowed you to enter the water.

Best Regards
Richard

The question here would be has the parent spoke with a DR already probably not and there I would the shop made a good call. ONLY because someone was protecting a child if it had been a adult the dive shop would have been wrong because the shop would not have known the adult had consulted with a DR already. When I was a Child I had asthma but I have not had an attack in 25+ years you can call it wrong but I seen no reason to talk about it with dive shop.

 

[Riger]

The question here would be has the parent spoke with a DR already probably not and there I would the shop made a good call. ONLY because someone was protecting a child if it had been a adult the dive shop would have been wrong because the shop would not have known the adult had consulted with a DR already. When I was a Child I had asthma but I have not had an attack in 25+ years you can call it wrong but I seen no reason to talk about it with dive shop.

In the context of the discussion and in this specific instance a specific point made during the discussion, my response is related to the relationship between a person lying on the form and the (potential) death of that person. I was merely trying to point out that in a case like this, lying on the form (thus avoiding a doctor's examination and consideration) removes a safety net that might otherwise have specifically advised the person that they are not fit to dive.

Responding to your comment however, if the person had been trying to tell his wife to withhold the information regarding the asthma, I am confident that the dive instructor would have reacted the same way.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[NudeDiver]

Waivers are just a piece of documentation to show that the signatory knew the risks, It shows some degree of due diligence. it's not possible to sign away your rights. Waiver is a misnomer. I cannot be relieved of my responsibilities, whatever you sign.

I'll leave it you to read the multiple and nasty threads on here on this topic. I have nothing more to add to what has already been said

Informed consent is a legal term.

Why yes, I know.

Your suggestions are not legally defensible

I never claimed otherwise.

Everyone knows it CYA

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

I highly doubt that you have a similar background to mine.

I never claimed I did.

I am forced to opine that you have no privacy if you have an internet account OR a SSN/ SIN OR bank account, OR a job. Privacy does not exist if someone wants to know about you....Privacy is dead. Only courtesy, disinterest in you and a bland life protects you now. It sucks, but that's the truth.

Thanks for the news flash.

 

[Divenomad]

I have a direct question. Do you often advocate lying? Or do you just like to stir a pot? I'm disappointed. I thought you had something worthwhile to say, a well thought out opinion. I regret to say that I thought you were worth listening to, and you were not.

I apologize for wasting boards time, Because all I ever asked for was a straight answer, to a simple question. But that was never the point for you, was it?

Pity.

 

[NudeDiver]

I have a direct question. Do you often advocate lying? Or do you just like to stir a pot? I'm disappointed. I thought you had something worthwhile to say, a well thought out opinion. I regret to say that I thought you were worth listening to, and you were not.

I apologize for wasting boards time, Because all I ever asked for was a straight answer, to a simple question. But that was never the point for you, was it?

Pity.

Go, team!

 

[captain]

I got tired reading at page 6 but a simple solution is not to have the questionnaire at all and require a medical release from everybody with the doctor simply stating the person is cleared, period, end of story. No information as to whether the applicant has medical issues or not is indicated on the form. No release no training. Fair for everyone.

 

[BDSC]

Here's an idea that no one has come up with yet.

Remember when you were a kid they had this invisible ink stuff that you could write with and then after a few minutes it would disappear. Well................there you go. Someone should make that stuff again and sell it to anyone wanting to dive. You get the form........fill it out truthfully so you won't feel to bad about lying and potentially kill another diver/buddy/instructor.......and then hand the damn thing in. The shop staff looks at it really quickly (like they take the time to study the thing anyway) and they file it away. If anyone ever goes back to take a look at it...............it's BLANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To bad I didn't find this thread earlier. I would have saved us all a lot of posts and reading. Now I'm off to make my first batch of invisible ink. Let the good times roll$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.