gene02
Guest
NUDEDIVER we are on the same page on this one
Medical Privacy Concern
- Thread starter Radcat
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NudeDiver
Contributor
Thanks for your support
But be careful - such statements can make you the target it disdain and silliness like you have never seen before! I just thought I would let you know, so that, you know, you have informed consent and all.
Speaking of which - I wonder how many of these fine SB citizens who believe their forms are the master of the universe, think it is common for "dive pros" who happen to have a "yes" answer or two themselves, but are medically cleared to dive, to share their personal medical information with anyone else they happened to be on a boat with, let alone teach - so that these people can have "informed consent" about whether they should go diving with them or not.
Excellent and fair question. I have a yes. Everyone I dive with has that information, including boats and operators. A quiet conversation and a current medical evaluation signed by a physician is presented for their records.No one has ever declined to do business with me nor has anyone ever declined to dive with me because of fitness. I don't believe in putting others at risk (which in my case is quite minimal) without thier knowledge. I was raised better than that.
-Nomad
-Nomad
Well I guess I have to repeat that lying on the medical form may seem logical to those who want to dive at any cost but if you're able to get past the "ME ME ME" of it all, it feels a lot different to those who have to bury the dead.
R..
NudeDiver
Contributor
The question was, do you think it is common for people to do so?
Please tell me, if a person has, say, diabetes, and their doctor clears them to dive, and they go diving with you without telling you that they have diabetes, what the "additional risk" to you is? Same question, but they're taking a prescription medication for, oh, I dunno, allergy to pollen? Or High cholesterol? Or inability to get it up? Or whatever? Thanks.
NudeDiver
Contributor
A fine, FINE emotional answer to a logical question.
You don't still think we're talking about theoreticals here do you?
People die because of lying on their medical forms...(ie. following your advice). and trying to rescue them and/or being forced to tell their loved ones what happened are not theoretical arguments on a Internet forum.... to say nothing of the persons who died by listening to this crap.
Try to understand that.
R..
OldNSalty
Contributor
A persons honesty or accuracy on the form has nothing to do with them dying with the only posible exception being that a Dr. told them flat out 'if you drop below the surface you will die-Don't dive'
Even then, form isn't to blame...
Even then, form isn't to blame...
gene02
Guest
I don't think lying on a med form to a dive shop has ever killed anyone. Before anyone gets in the water they are informed of the dangers to a list of medical conditions they choose to ignore or think this could never happen to me with out seeking medical advice.
This advice does not come from a dive shop it comes from a medical doctor and has absolutely nothing to do with the dive shop or agency and is none of there business.
Again the ONLY REASON anyone ask for the form to be filled out is lawyers and courts.
If I have a medical condition that my DR says you dive you die. Then I choose to dive I am a fool and no one can change that no matter how many forms I fill out. However if my DR says good to go it just isn't your business. The dive instructor is in no more danger than looking after any other student.
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I'm curious if some of you folks know what the Instructors, Dive Cons, shops, and training agencies go through, to make sure all is well.
There are lots of reasons for the medical history. First, you (as the diver that wants to get certified) may not have a clue what is important in diving. Case-in-point, are you aware of diving physiology, and how gas exchange works in your lungs, and all of the ramifications of any medical condition that may endanger you?
The Instructors can be held legally liable for their actions, if something "goes wrong". Worse, if you lie on a form, you are potentially endangering the other students in your class, if your class is at depth and you have a medical issue that direcly impacts your respiration or ability to assimilate compressed air at depth. So let's play this out, you get hurt (or worse, die), and here comes your estate, with attorney in tow, and sues everyone in site. First thing is all the paperwork is going to be checked.
Regardless of the outcome, why endanger the rest of the class? Say you're learning, and it's now time to graduate from the pool sessions to the Open Water certification. It's probably the first time you'll be at depth (along with everyone else). So you have a condition, that no one knew about, because you intentionally lied, and it causes a problem. Say you get into trouble, and the Instructor tries to save you, while the rest of the class gets stressed (which may lead them to panic). I think you see the point.
If the Instructor KNOWS the class limitations, he/she can work around them. They can get assistants to help out with things. If the underlying condition is too problematic, they may suggest a private course, instead.
The whole point is to learn it safely, and have a lot of fun doing it. Instructors mainly do it because they like to, very, very few of them actually make a living at it. So please don't hamstring them by balking at giving them informational tools to make you a safe, competent diver.
And it's good to know your own limitations. If you're a begginer, you most likely have no idea how important some of the information on those forms really is. It comes under the heading of "what you don't know you don't know; can hurt you".
Ditto for if you have any communicable disease, cold, anything, while training. For goodness sakes, have the courtesy to tell your instructor, as they can most likely develop a way to work around it.
There are lots of reasons for the medical history. First, you (as the diver that wants to get certified) may not have a clue what is important in diving. Case-in-point, are you aware of diving physiology, and how gas exchange works in your lungs, and all of the ramifications of any medical condition that may endanger you?
The Instructors can be held legally liable for their actions, if something "goes wrong". Worse, if you lie on a form, you are potentially endangering the other students in your class, if your class is at depth and you have a medical issue that direcly impacts your respiration or ability to assimilate compressed air at depth. So let's play this out, you get hurt (or worse, die), and here comes your estate, with attorney in tow, and sues everyone in site. First thing is all the paperwork is going to be checked.
Regardless of the outcome, why endanger the rest of the class? Say you're learning, and it's now time to graduate from the pool sessions to the Open Water certification. It's probably the first time you'll be at depth (along with everyone else). So you have a condition, that no one knew about, because you intentionally lied, and it causes a problem. Say you get into trouble, and the Instructor tries to save you, while the rest of the class gets stressed (which may lead them to panic). I think you see the point.
If the Instructor KNOWS the class limitations, he/she can work around them. They can get assistants to help out with things. If the underlying condition is too problematic, they may suggest a private course, instead.
The whole point is to learn it safely, and have a lot of fun doing it. Instructors mainly do it because they like to, very, very few of them actually make a living at it. So please don't hamstring them by balking at giving them informational tools to make you a safe, competent diver.
And it's good to know your own limitations. If you're a begginer, you most likely have no idea how important some of the information on those forms really is. It comes under the heading of "what you don't know you don't know; can hurt you".
Ditto for if you have any communicable disease, cold, anything, while training. For goodness sakes, have the courtesy to tell your instructor, as they can most likely develop a way to work around it.
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