Medical Privacy Concern
- Thread starter Radcat
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I understand your question. All three of them lied on their medical forms and were cleared to dive according to standards without a medical doctor evaluating their fitness for this activity.
I'm not sure if the OP had clearance from an MD or not. As I said above, I think he brings up a good point either way because privacy is an important issue.
R..
OldNSalty
Contributor
Oh come on, at least be honest. Being concerned about disclosing sensitive information to someone that might not be even qualified to reasonable assess your answers is not the same as lying at all cost. In fact, I think it is probably a perfectly reasonable response. I see too many people wanting to play doctor by asking ridiculous questions. I simply turn in the forms without answering the ones I find to be unreasonable. I have found that when they ask me to finish filling it out, and I ask how the information might be useful to them, I usually get a blank response and they accept the partial form.
If a person has a medical issue that is on the questionaire, I feel they should consult a Dr.. If the Dr. clears them, then it is no one elses business!! If the Dr. does not clear them, then imho they should not dive. Either way medical info in this day and age is much to sensitive to have in the hands of people who are not trained to properly handle it. Neither are they required to keep it private!!! This info if released either through accident or maliciousness can cause untold trouble in ways most of us are not even aware of!! Your medical info can even effect your credit score.
vladimir
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I think he has pretty clearly posed the question with the proviso that he is medically cleared by a doctor. I agree that it is a good point and a legitimate concern. Americans, it seems to me, are continually obliged to cede more and more privacy to corporate "needs." Yes, we are free to not have credit cards, not have phone service, and not take scuba training, for example, but it seems increasingly difficult to maintain a semblance of privacy and lead a "normal" life.
I'm guessing that his mother didn't name him Radcat and his privacy is still largely intact, despite having posted here.
Wow- what an exciting introduction to the diving community! I really appreciate the in depth feedback. I got the answer to my question about the process and I understand the perspectives of some other people - I appreciate it. Also, a couple of people who responded acknowledged that they had not thought about this issue before and provided some recommendations that could possibly improve the process while maintaining the high level of safety that you have established in the industry. Based on the diverse opinions expressed, I think such change would be a good thing.
NudeDiver
Contributor
Um...sure.....yep..that's exactly what I said.
Besides which....I don't care if people lie on the form, or whether they go diving at all. It simply isn't any of my business
I find this whole thing amusing. The purpose of the form is to establish whether there is an increased risk to a diver due to a medical condition. I have no idea where the concept of a diving professional assessing a medical condition came from. Research has determined that this particular list of conditions has possible consequences for a diver. If these conditions exists, A doctor assesses fitness, not an instructor. The instructor has a legal responsibility (due to being a representatives of a larger entity) to not instruct until clearance has been obtained. This is due to the possibility of litigation. As Nudediver states, he makes an informed decision to dive; however, his position collapses because his advice to lie on the form denies the right of the instructor/agency to decline training because they do not have informed consent. What he claims for himself he denies to others.
Those categories and that form exists to create informed consent. The instructor does not assess medical fitness, it only determines whether further investigation into a potential divers fitness is required. if so, the doctor decides.and the instructor then can consent or not, based on a known medical evaluation. The decision as to fitness is not the instructors to make.
The purpose is to mitigate liability. In Nudedivers world, everyone takes absolute responsibility for themselves, and would not litigate if injured or killed, nor would their estate.They would also take responsibilty for any injury caused to others due to being medically unfit for diving. I would like to live there, please. It's grand that he would not litigate, let him talk everyone else out of it.
Until then, I respectfully request that he not dispense advice that places other people at physical or legal risk.
The concern for privacy is very valid; however, until our tort laws get radically altered, this is what we have.
The truth of the matter is that once this form is filed, no one ever looks at it unless a lawsuit is pending. Laws vary by jurisdiction, records are required to be kept for a certain number of years. A good shop adheres to the law, they protect a divers privacy, and have no reason to provide it to any third party unless subphoened. In the event of a privacy breach, there is recourse under the law. And round and round we go.
If we have a problem, it is with the attitude of "It's not my fault, they were supposed to take care of me, they failed and need to pay" This is the bread and butter of litigation firms, and they promote this kind of thinking. Insurance companies foster this due to cost accounting which favors settlements.
If Nudediver has a better way of doing things, let him implement it and change the system. Until he does so, his opinion is not relevent, nor are his arguements.
I'm sincerely glad of his attitude, however, we need more people willing to take full responsibilty for their actions.
Nomad
Those categories and that form exists to create informed consent. The instructor does not assess medical fitness, it only determines whether further investigation into a potential divers fitness is required. if so, the doctor decides.and the instructor then can consent or not, based on a known medical evaluation. The decision as to fitness is not the instructors to make.
The purpose is to mitigate liability. In Nudedivers world, everyone takes absolute responsibility for themselves, and would not litigate if injured or killed, nor would their estate.They would also take responsibilty for any injury caused to others due to being medically unfit for diving. I would like to live there, please. It's grand that he would not litigate, let him talk everyone else out of it.
Until then, I respectfully request that he not dispense advice that places other people at physical or legal risk.
The concern for privacy is very valid; however, until our tort laws get radically altered, this is what we have.
The truth of the matter is that once this form is filed, no one ever looks at it unless a lawsuit is pending. Laws vary by jurisdiction, records are required to be kept for a certain number of years. A good shop adheres to the law, they protect a divers privacy, and have no reason to provide it to any third party unless subphoened. In the event of a privacy breach, there is recourse under the law. And round and round we go.
If we have a problem, it is with the attitude of "It's not my fault, they were supposed to take care of me, they failed and need to pay" This is the bread and butter of litigation firms, and they promote this kind of thinking. Insurance companies foster this due to cost accounting which favors settlements.
If Nudediver has a better way of doing things, let him implement it and change the system. Until he does so, his opinion is not relevent, nor are his arguements.
I'm sincerely glad of his attitude, however, we need more people willing to take full responsibilty for their actions.
Nomad
gene02
Guest
Plus they don't know how to use the information all a dive shop can do is say see a DR get another form filled out or call DAN which will say see a DR get another form filled out. This is not about helping me it is about liability courts and lawyers.
Again courts and lawyers
Again pass the buck. Now lets put the liability on the DR now we cover the dive shop from courts and lawyers
How about we look at this in my PADI training book it says up front and personal if you have these medical conditions see a DR. Now I am 44 year old adult that tells me if I have one of those conditions and I dive bad things can happen including death says so in the manual. I go see my DR he says you're ok go dive have fun and tell me about it. It should not matter what agency it is I should not as a adult have to prove anything to them other than I'm here and have studied my book.
The only reason they need that form is for courts and lawyers.
Last time I checked my instructor nor DM had any medical degrees maybe I should ask if that changed but I don't think so.
NudeDiver
Contributor
So, in other words, as has been previously stated in this thread - answering "yes" on the form is all about lawyers, lawsuits and liability and has nothing to do with any sort of medical advantage over simply consulting with one's doctor.
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