max depth with standard air

[chrpai]

What you quoted me in a private message only applies to students in a GUE course.

Guess again.

So I guess you don't train the way you will dive? I guess that means they are going around teaching 30/30 to 120fsw just for 'students' and that real dives can be conducted on air....

Please...

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=G...1722476605@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com&rnum=17

"DIR For Recreational Divers" By MHK
"6) Keeping your EAD's or End's at 100' max"

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm not sure that GUE training standards have much to do with the topic here. They don't make any secret of what they believe and teach or the reasons for it.


Chris,
What's your point? Do you have an opinion on the subject or do you just want to pick a fight with some one over the GUE/DIR position?

 

[chrpai]

I'm not sure that GUE training standards have much to do with the topic here. They don't make any secret of what they believe and teach or the reasons for it.


Chris,
What's your point? Do you have an opinion on the subject or do you just want to pick a fight with some one over the GUE/DIR position?

You said:
"I don't know that any one is suggesting that you need helium to do a 100 ft dive. "

I was rebutting your statement. I guess you don't like being wrong though.

And for the record I do have an opnion. I can see value in limiting the END of a dive. But I'm not going to spend close to $1000 on DIR-F and Rec Triox to do it.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Over cautious? How many dives on air to 150' have you done? I've done hundreds and I can tell you for certain that at 150' you are narced off your a$$, functioning at a fraction of your normal capacity.

Personally I no longer dive air. I could see a time when I would, if nothing else were available, but for normal circumstances, why?

Dives to 150' are a regular occurence with maybe half of my 130 or so dives year being below 130, all of them on air.

Trimix is not available everywhere so doing a dive on air is still a normal circumstance in many locations. Impaired functioning at 150'? Absolutely, no argument there, but it is a matter of knowing your limitations and staying within them like just about every thing else in diving. I would have no qualms about diving a wreck at 150' on air assuming some recent deep diving and generally good conditions. I also have no qualms about ascending a bit if I am not functioning where I need to be. Would I do an extensive penetration of a wreck at 150' on air - no.

I am not anti-trimix as it certainly has its place but I am opposed to the commonly expressed belief today that deep air diving is inherently unsafe. I also get a little miffed when a standard like planning for an END of 100' gets taken to mean "Thou shalt not go below 100' on air. Ever".

To be brutally honest we presently train divers to believe that they will get narced off their a$$ to the point of being non functional at amazingly shallow depths and guess what - it happens because divers believe it will happen. The Mount-Milner test was done about 30 years old but the results are still fascinating in terms of both the potential for functioning on air at depth and the potential for impairment on air at depth based on what you were taught to believe.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You said:
"I don't know that any one is suggesting that you need helium to do a 100 ft dive. "

I was rebutting your statement. I guess you don't like being wrong though.

And for the record I do have an opnion. I can see value in limiting the END of a dive. But I'm not going to spend close to $1000 on DIR-F and Rec Triox to do it.

I see. I'll explain my statement then. I was refering to those taking part in this conversation.

I agree that you can limit your END without going DIR or taking any GUE classes. I have a garage full of helium and most of my training was before I ever heard of GUE. Of course the easiest way to limit your END is by limiting your dive depth.

I will say this though, I haven't ignored the GUE guys because I choose not to label myself. They have some neat stuff both in the way they teach and the way they dive and you know what they say? "Knowledge is power".

 

[Don Burke]

So I guess you don't train the way you will dive? I guess that means they are going around teaching 30/30 to 120fsw just for 'students' and that real dives can be conducted on air....

Still wrong.

You can give up guessing now.

 

[MikeFerrara]

To be brutally honest we presently train divers to believe that they will get narced off their a$$ to the point of being non functional at amazingly shallow depths and guess what - it happens because divers believe it will happen. The Mount-Milner test was done about 30 years old but the results are still fascinating in terms of both the potential for functioning on air at depth and the potential for impairment on air at depth based on what you were taught to believe.

Good point. I'm familiar with the study. As you say, the divers who were told that they'd be really narced performed more like they were really narced than the divers who weren't told that.

We do read of divers who claim they were blasted at 80 ft. While I can beleive they felt the effects of narcosis it shouldn't be that bad at that depth so I can't help but think they're just brain washed.

 

[chrpai]

I see. I'll explain my statement then. I was refering to those taking part in this conversation.

I agree that you can limit your END without going DIR or taking any GUE classes. I have a garage full of helium and most of my training was before I ever heard of GUE. Of course the easiest way to limit your END is by limiting your dive depth.

I will say this though, I haven't ignored the GUE guys because I choose not to label myself. They have some neat stuff both in the way they teach and the way they dive and you know what they say? "Knowledge is power".

I took it "nobody is telling" you to be a broader sense of the whole dive community not this thread. Sorry for the disconnect.

 

[cornfed]

I was rebutting your statement. I guess you don't like being wrong though.

Chris, here is your original reply,

I don't know that any one is suggesting that you need helium to do a 100 ft dive.

No, but if you do 100.000000001' dive the kool aid drinkers say you do.

You could have said the same thing in a much different way. Don't you think things might have gone better if you said,

GUE does, they recommend limiting your END to 100 ft even on recreational dives.

Do you see why people thought you were just looking to pick a fight?

And for the record I do have an opnion. I can see value in limiting the END of a dive. But I'm not going to spend close to $1000 on DIR-F and Rec Triox to do it.

There are other ways to get this training.

 

[captain]

I love these deep air discussions. I would like to be able to sent all those who believe that anyone who dives deeper than 80 or 100 feet on air is nuts back in time 25 years to see if they would continue to dive without nitrox and tri mix.

Captain