Maskless ascents
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DennisW
Contributor
I have absolutely no aversion to practice. I regularly remove my mask on dives and I check my octo on nearly every dive. I have also worked on real buddy breathing with my best buddy on a dive or two. However, I dive for fun, not for practice.
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
This maskless ascent thing sounds fun.
So what do you guys do, go right down past 100 feet or so and have some one unexpectedly rip your mask from your face then begin the process complete with lengthy deco stops and the whole thing, or do you start fairly shallow and increase the depth and time over several practice sessions?
When I did some TDI training we had to do a regular mask R&R at depth. In fact we did a mask R&R on every training dive along with each other thing we were learning on that particular dive.
The freezing eyeballs is what I disliked most.
I don't really see the point of a full maskless ascent except for increasing comfort level and watermanship skills because in reality I would think that's why everyone brings a spare mask; to cover just such an incident. And if you did lose 2 masks then it would seem to me that it would be better to use a team mates mask rather than become a liability to the rest of the team being blind and worthless.
We don't have any DIR training on the North Coast, it's simply not available where I live, so that's why I have to read stuff about it and ask lots of questions.
So what do you guys do, go right down past 100 feet or so and have some one unexpectedly rip your mask from your face then begin the process complete with lengthy deco stops and the whole thing, or do you start fairly shallow and increase the depth and time over several practice sessions?
When I did some TDI training we had to do a regular mask R&R at depth. In fact we did a mask R&R on every training dive along with each other thing we were learning on that particular dive.
The freezing eyeballs is what I disliked most.
I don't really see the point of a full maskless ascent except for increasing comfort level and watermanship skills because in reality I would think that's why everyone brings a spare mask; to cover just such an incident. And if you did lose 2 masks then it would seem to me that it would be better to use a team mates mask rather than become a liability to the rest of the team being blind and worthless.
We don't have any DIR training on the North Coast, it's simply not available where I live, so that's why I have to read stuff about it and ask lots of questions.
Oh, we definitely start with mask-off stuff in shallow water! It begins with the mask remove and replace in Fundies, which is done with reference to the bottom. We were asked to remove our masks in Rec Triox, and that eventually was done in midwater, but we were allowed to remove and don our backup masks. I do not believe GUE requires a mask-off ascent any more -- At least, my instructor told me they don't, for the simple reason that SOMEBODY on the team is going to have a backup mask, even if one is lost. So it's an unlikely problem to have to manage, and they don't ask it.
But my NAUI Helitrox class DID require no-mask ascents, and the mask was removed, rather than a polite request and then the instructor waiting for me to gather my courage and take it off
This began in shallow water and went to deeper and midwater. And we did have to do mask-off ascents. It is a good exercise in team trust for the "blind" diver, and an excellent way to task-load the seeing one.
And my regular dive buddy is not above adding to the excitement on practice dives, because he knows ascents are my bugaboo. A couple of months ago, we're doing an air-sharing ascent on a line, with me running deco, and I look over and the imp has his mask off. So now we're doing an air-sharing, mask off ascent on a line, and I'm calling deco, keeping us on the line, and managing my buddy as well. Needless to say, there was a little sputtering on reaching the surface on that dive!
But my NAUI Helitrox class DID require no-mask ascents, and the mask was removed, rather than a polite request and then the instructor waiting for me to gather my courage and take it off
This began in shallow water and went to deeper and midwater. And we did have to do mask-off ascents. It is a good exercise in team trust for the "blind" diver, and an excellent way to task-load the seeing one. And my regular dive buddy is not above adding to the excitement on practice dives, because he knows ascents are my bugaboo. A couple of months ago, we're doing an air-sharing ascent on a line, with me running deco, and I look over and the imp has his mask off. So now we're doing an air-sharing, mask off ascent on a line, and I'm calling deco, keeping us on the line, and managing my buddy as well. Needless to say, there was a little sputtering on reaching the surface on that dive!
For what it's worth, I found that having the mask ripped off without warning was much nicer (easier to deal with) than doing a self-flood and replace. (This is in 46 degree salt water.) For whatever reason, I end up calmer with my mask off (an instructor described it as perhaps being too comfortable).
It is only an exercise.
HOWEVER -- on a trip to Indonesia (Tasik Rea) we were diving a very deep wall (bottom 500'?) in a fairly big group. One of the potential problems was having someone (generally with a camera) come down on you. (I actually had someone float down onto my head as I was just about to shoot some nudi or something else small.) Anyway, we realized it was very possible for someone to accidentally kick another's mask off.
We talked about this with a couple of friends and one said "Oh, I have no idea what I would do if someone kicked my mask off. I'm not sure I could maintain buoyancy." And she was diving at 90 feet with a bottom 400' away!
It became clear to me that some familiarity with mask off procedures is NOT just a task loading exercise. IF you are going to dive walls in big groups, losing a mask is a real possibility and being able to maintain some semblance of water column control would be a very good thing.
It is only an exercise.
HOWEVER -- on a trip to Indonesia (Tasik Rea) we were diving a very deep wall (bottom 500'?) in a fairly big group. One of the potential problems was having someone (generally with a camera) come down on you. (I actually had someone float down onto my head as I was just about to shoot some nudi or something else small.) Anyway, we realized it was very possible for someone to accidentally kick another's mask off.
We talked about this with a couple of friends and one said "Oh, I have no idea what I would do if someone kicked my mask off. I'm not sure I could maintain buoyancy." And she was diving at 90 feet with a bottom 400' away!
It became clear to me that some familiarity with mask off procedures is NOT just a task loading exercise. IF you are going to dive walls in big groups, losing a mask is a real possibility and being able to maintain some semblance of water column control would be a very good thing.
I guess everything happens to me. LOL. Back when we used rubber or silicone straps, I had a strap break while I was on a dive with students. I didn't have a spare mask but I made due without the strap.
Another time, I dropped a mask when I donated my necklaced backup because of a botched valve drill. Stupid as it was, we were both doing it at the same time and my buddy (having turned all her vales off without turning anything back on) came to me for gas when my primary was off. ok GI would love to get hold of that one but it happened and I knocked my own mask off getting the necklace over my head. It wasn't any real big deal and, after getting her breathing again, I got the mask back and put it on.
One mask for the team wouldn't do me any good. I can't read a thing without my prescription lenzes and I'd do about as well with no mask at all.
That said, I've never lost a mask completely and have never needed to use my backup mask. I do carry it on dives where I think the ability to read might come in handy.
LG Diver
Guest
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
I'll check into it.
Thanks.
Eric
Thanks.
Eric
My mask has been unsealed a bunch by errant kicks, instructors, etc, but never actually come off my head. I might just be lucky, but I think I would be able to catch it if I had a hand free.
Tom
Tom
alwaingold
Guest
I'm a bit late to the party, but since I am a big wimp at being maskless, I thought I'd chime in. I agree that a maskless ascent is ridiculously unlikely for a well-equipped team to ever have to do. But I think mastering the maskless ascent boosts your confidence about how you would react if you had to do it. It is also good practice for dealing with no mask in general (especially if you are a maskless wimp like me). I find practicing maskless ascents to be a lot more fun than just practicing being maskless, so it's just another way to work on that skill in general.
I do not agree about the closing your eyes thing. Well, you could try it both ways just to see how it works (and to find out how much friggen easier it is with eyes open, although eyes closed is so... peaceful). I think there is value in practicing what you would actually do in the event that you had to do a maskless ascent. As far as simulating zero viz, in what scenario would you have zero viz, but be getting signals from your buddy? If you truly had to do an ascent in zero viz, your buddy would not be able to give you all these very useful hand signals, because he presumably couldn't see his gauge either. There may be value in practicing dealing with zero viz in general, but I don't see the point for buddy-assisted ascents.
I was a little nervous about the line trick that KMD described, because I find the hand to hand contact comforting when I cannot see. But if you do the line trick, and have your buddy next to you, holding your elbow during stops (like he would if he were swimming you out without a mask), he can control your position both horizontally and vertically. I have been known to fin extraneously when maskless
But yea, I agree with the sentiment that you should not live your dive life doing drills. Since apparently there is never any talk about fun dives on this forum, I'm going to start posting my fun dive reports here. And yea, rhlee is a poser, those aren't his dive reports, just his very lovely pictures
I do not agree about the closing your eyes thing. Well, you could try it both ways just to see how it works (and to find out how much friggen easier it is with eyes open, although eyes closed is so... peaceful). I think there is value in practicing what you would actually do in the event that you had to do a maskless ascent. As far as simulating zero viz, in what scenario would you have zero viz, but be getting signals from your buddy? If you truly had to do an ascent in zero viz, your buddy would not be able to give you all these very useful hand signals, because he presumably couldn't see his gauge either. There may be value in practicing dealing with zero viz in general, but I don't see the point for buddy-assisted ascents.
I was a little nervous about the line trick that KMD described, because I find the hand to hand contact comforting when I cannot see. But if you do the line trick, and have your buddy next to you, holding your elbow during stops (like he would if he were swimming you out without a mask), he can control your position both horizontally and vertically. I have been known to fin extraneously when maskless
But yea, I agree with the sentiment that you should not live your dive life doing drills. Since apparently there is never any talk about fun dives on this forum, I'm going to start posting my fun dive reports here. And yea, rhlee is a poser, those aren't his dive reports, just his very lovely pictures
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