Maryland woman dies in Key Largo 12-30

[Jasonmh]

I would not label this as a fad. Read my post on the GUE OW course in February 2008. It is also a 3 days course.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ng/214542-gue-open-water-course-feb-08-a.html

This is getting to be the norm rather than the exception.

It definitely isn't getting to be the norm with GUE, which is one of the only agencies I know of who are not lowering standards (thankfully). That course was a typo, it is the DIR-F course which is for certified divers only.

 

[GoBlue!]

Mourningnancy, Hopashore, you have my sincerest sympathies. Welcome to the community; I hope you are finding support and solace here.

As a physician, I've been close to countless families at the time of a death of a loved one...some expected, many unexpected.

It's human nature to replay all events that could have possibly changed the outcome. It's in our blood to wish that we -- or someone else -- could have identified something, done something, or predicted something that would have saved the person we love so much.

At least from the information that you have graciously provided to us, it doesn't appear that there was gross negligence by any party. I'm not implying that you're seeking it, but I hope that it should help put your mind to some ease that this is likely one of those terrible, unpredictable tragedies. I love the website tribute to Nancy, and I hope that you're pouring all of your energies into remembering and celebrating her life.

All of my best to your family. My thoughts and prayers are with you in this difficult time.

Jim

 

[nthach]

Just a word on the coughing. I am a mild asthmatic and was very concerned about learning to dive since I did some research on the subject and read several stories of people with asthma dying during diving. The problem is that the air passages in the lungs swell with mucus. That mucus can trap air and cause a lung embolism, even if you don't hold your breath. Therefore, I don't dive with the slightest hint of asthma. On the first day of diving I always take a precautionary "hit" off my inhaler, even when I don't have asthma. Even with that, there have been a couple of times in my early diving career that I experienced the start of asthma while under water. I always keep my ascent rate to the slowest measurable rate of one green bar and if I suspect asthma, I cough and breathe out hard.

I would ask all dive masters and instructors to be aware of this potential problem and never let a diver dive with a cough, especially if it sounds like they a lot of mucus in their lungs. I am so sorry for the loss of this woman, and I can't understand why any boat operator would let this woman dive with such a heavy cough. Perhaps they were not aware of it if she was taking a medicine to calm the cough. Problem is, I hope it was not a diver who advised her that taking the medicine would make it OK to dive.

Diving last year on the Caribbean Explorer I, we were dropped into a 2.5 knot current. I think having a lifetime of experience with asthma saved me from potential disaster. I saw my fellow divers overexerting themselves to fight the current. I've always understood how to pace myself and have learned how not to panic with restricted breathing, even before I started diving. Early-on in this dive, I knew the current was bad and started forcing myself to take slower, deeper breaths and work at a slower pace. I fell behind about 50 feet, but still could see everyone. My sister (who has no asthma, with more than 60 dives) had a severe panic attack that started with her body forcing her into shallow fast breathing. She said she pulled the reg out of her mouth because of the overwhelming desire to breathe and came very close to breathing in water. Another guy, much younger and totally in shape with nearly 300 dives admitted he had the same experience on this dive. They were lucky they did not lose any divers on that day. Both my sister and this other guy were obviously overcome with this experience and felt lucky to be alive. The lesson here: please watch yourselves in extreme situations like this. Be aware when you start to overexert yourself that you begin to build-up CO2 by overbreathing your reg. Your body will take over and force you to start hyperventilating, leading to panic and a nearly uncontrollable urge to breathe. If you are continuously having to kick hard, you are overexerting yourself. Best to call the dive off, go to the surface early in the dive so the current doesn't take you too far from the boat. My sister said she thought everyone else was doing it, and there must have been something wrong with her because she was having trouble keeping up. She said she was unaware that she was fighting such a strong current. When absolutely no one could make it 30 feet to the anchor line from the front of the boat - there was no doubt in my mind right from the start that we were in a very strong current.

In this situation, if the woman's problem had been overexertion from current (as some have suggested), I think she would have likely drowned instead of collasping later on the boat.


Karen

I was planning to get my certification this year and my doctor has just diagnosed me as pre-asthmatic, isn't asthma one of those disorders that needs a doctor sign-off?

and my condolences go out to Hopashore and mourningnancy as well.

 

[Captain Larry]

MourningNancy, thank you for posting additional information on this and again, my condolences to you and others who were close to her.

I am not a dive professional nor do I directly represent any specific agency. I am just a diver with 46 years of off-and-on diving experience (very intense the last 10 years). Having begun diving without certification (which I did not receive for another 8 years), I guess I am fortunate to have survived.

When I finally was required to get certification upon moving to SoCal, I took the intensive Los Angeles County (LAC) course which took many class, pool and ocean sessions over three weeks to get an OW cert. That training was excellent, and LAC continues to offer outstanding and intensive classes, bucking the trend towards weekend miracle certifications.

It has long been my opinion that what I perceive as a watering down of OW certification programs, and the lack of required recertification thanks to most certs being lifelong, is a potential long-term safety risk. I can't speak specifically to the instruction given Dr. Kreiter. Given her academic credentials I would assume she absorbed what was given far better than the average dive class member does. Again, this is simply my personal opinion as a non-professional diver. It would probably carry little weight in court.

I used to feel that divers should wait a while before proceeding to AOW certification. I've changed my opinion on that and now recommend (when asked) that divers continue their education through rescue diver. My original LAC cert class actually covered much of what is included in OW, AOW and Rescue (albeit with less information available to disseminate back in the 60's).

Looking back I can't remember what my LAC certification cost. The school I was hired by paid for it. I would imagine an equivalent course today would run on the order of $1,000 or more. Of course that poses a financial barrier if you are trying to get more divers involved in the activity. I have criticized certain agencies in the past for trying to maximize revenue by offering a series of less-intensive courses at lower prices. However, I have softened that criticism to a degree given what a real in-depth course would cost in today's dollars.

It will be interesting to see what the inspection of her equipment yields.

The wisest post I've ever read on Scubaboard. So true. I received my LA County cert in 1975. I agree with your analysis that it was about the equivalant training as going through today's Rescue Diver. After graduating I felt totally confident in my skills. I credit that training for giving me the foundation for my current level of proficiency and achievement.