Maryland woman dies in Key Largo 12-30

[darry_99]

I don't think snorkel cuts it for rough seas. I keep my reg in the mouth until my both feet are firmly on the boat.

I had to abort a dive in Key West on 12/11 due to terrible viz and strong currents. Came up with 2300 psi and about 400 yards from the boat. Was a fun swim back to the boat to say the least. There is no way a snorkel would have kept my mouth dry.

 

[BKP]

Mourningnancy, Hopashore... my sympathies for your loss, and gratitude for your postings.

Compared to many here, my experience is limited, however...

Unfortunately, one dynamic of SCUBA training standards seems to be the variable approach from course to course, agency to agency, instructor to instructor, and student to student. However, with the exception of the abbreviated resort course (and assuming a competent and patient instructor), most initial OW courses give you, at the least, the basic parameters and how-to's of limited, recreational diving in ideal conditions.

The one consistency of diving, however, is that perfect competentcy, preparedness, and self-sufficiency are on a pinnacle no one ever reaches. With experience, a diver comes closer, however, even then we sometimes lose the best and most accomplished in the industry, for as many reasons as there are diving venues and conditions.

If you don't have anything conclusive yet, speculation can't possibly serve any purpose, other than throwing an undeserved pall on the certifying school, dive op, or equipment.

I wish you success in finding an answer and closure. Know that all here share a very poignant understanding of Nancy's enthusiasm and joy for her first few dives, and all here also share a community sense of loss for "one of our own."

 

[K_girl]

Just a word on the coughing. I am a mild asthmatic and was very concerned about learning to dive since I did some research on the subject and read several stories of people with asthma dying during diving. The problem is that the air passages in the lungs swell with mucus. That mucus can trap air and cause a lung embolism, even if you don't hold your breath. Therefore, I don't dive with the slightest hint of asthma. On the first day of diving I always take a precautionary "hit" off my inhaler, even when I don't have asthma. Even with that, there have been a couple of times in my early diving career that I experienced the start of asthma while under water. I always keep my ascent rate to the slowest measurable rate of one green bar and if I suspect asthma, I cough and breathe out hard.

I would ask all dive masters and instructors to be aware of this potential problem and never let a diver dive with a cough, especially if it sounds like they a lot of mucus in their lungs. I am so sorry for the loss of this woman, and I can't understand why any boat operator would let this woman dive with such a heavy cough. Perhaps they were not aware of it if she was taking a medicine to calm the cough. Problem is, I hope it was not a diver who advised her that taking the medicine would make it OK to dive.

Diving last year on the Caribbean Explorer I, we were dropped into a 2.5 knot current. I think having a lifetime of experience with asthma saved me from potential disaster. I saw my fellow divers overexerting themselves to fight the current. I've always understood how to pace myself and have learned how not to panic with restricted breathing, even before I started diving. Early-on in this dive, I knew the current was bad and started forcing myself to take slower, deeper breaths and work at a slower pace. I fell behind about 50 feet, but still could see everyone. My sister (who has no asthma, with more than 60 dives) had a severe panic attack that started with her body forcing her into shallow fast breathing. She said she pulled the reg out of her mouth because of the overwhelming desire to breathe and came very close to breathing in water. Another guy, much younger and totally in shape with nearly 300 dives admitted he had the same experience on this dive. They were lucky they did not lose any divers on that day. Both my sister and this other guy were obviously overcome with this experience and felt lucky to be alive. The lesson here: please watch yourselves in extreme situations like this. Be aware when you start to overexert yourself that you begin to build-up CO2 by overbreathing your reg. Your body will take over and force you to start hyperventilating, leading to panic and a nearly uncontrollable urge to breathe. If you are continuously having to kick hard, you are overexerting yourself. Best to call the dive off, go to the surface early in the dive so the current doesn't take you too far from the boat. My sister said she thought everyone else was doing it, and there must have been something wrong with her because she was having trouble keeping up. She said she was unaware that she was fighting such a strong current. When absolutely no one could make it 30 feet to the anchor line from the front of the boat - there was no doubt in my mind right from the start that we were in a very strong current.

In this situation, if the woman's problem had been overexertion from current (as some have suggested), I think she would have likely drowned instead of collasping later on the boat.


Karen

 

[NancyLynn]

I am so sorry for the loss of this woman, and I can't understand why any boat operator would let this woman dive with such a heavy cough. Perhaps they were not aware of it if she was taking a medicine to calm the cough. Problem is, I hope it was not a diver who advised her that taking the medicine would make it OK to dive.

<snip>
I think she would have likely drowned instead of collasping later on the boat.

Karen

Perhaps you missed Nancy's daughter's post. (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...man-dies-key-largo-12-30-a-6.html#post3299251 )There were numerous inaccuracies in the public reports. According to her daughter, Nancy did not have a cough/cold at the time of the dive. The only medication she was taking was ibuprofen for the residual pain from the cartilage that was torn three weeks ago because of a strong cough. The doctor who treated her for the torn cartilage had cleared her for diving.

Ditto the reports that she collapsed on the boat. She was in the water at the time she stopped breathing, at the line next to the ladder.

 

[NancyLynn]

Hopashore,

I am sorry for your loss. Your mother sounds like a remarkable woman.

3) Yes, she was an inexperienced diver. But not only is the Benwood an easy dive, she had dived it once before WITH an instructor and there were 30 other divers in the water at the time. Her technical dive buddy was my brother (who is 13, turning 14 in a week) but she was oftentimes with a group of more people.

The concerns expressed upthread are part of a longstanding debate about children diving which has (at least) two prongs. One is that an that there is some quantity of experience necessary before a diving parent can/should be the sole backup for a minor child (this train of thought would have required that your brother have an instructor - or at least a more experienced diver - as a buddy).

The second is that each member of a buddy team is, in some sense, responsible for the safety of the other member of the team - and that it is unfair to make the minor child actually responsible (or feel responsible) for the safety of his or her parent, especially if something tragic should happen to the parent.

Although that second concern is not as frequently expressed, it may actually be more relevant here. I hope your brother is able to accept that your mother died doing what she had dreamed about for years - and (from anything I have read so far) there appears to be nothing that your brother (or anyone else) could have done to change the outcome.

 

[MikeFerrara]

What I would like to ask you, as members of the scuba community, is are these shortened certification courses safe? Could something have happened with her equipment that might have caused her death that someone who had taken the longer certification courses might have been able to recognize? As far as I know, her equipment is being examined by authorities, and I have not heard the status of that investigation.

Regardless of the length of the course, what I look at is the training standards. The agency training standards describe what is required of the instructor and the student regardless of whether it takes two hours or two years.

If you look around this board you'll find many threads where we have discussed and debated the details and merits of the training standards in great detail.

Safe? The vast majority of people survive it but we survive lots of things that I wouldn't consider smart or safe. I think by simply observing classes and recent grads of classes we can easily see that the level of skill that results from the application of the training standards is very low.

It doesn't sound like anyone knows what the cause was in this case. It sounds like there were some buoyancy control issues but apparently no evidence that it was the cause.

 

[Jim Kerr]

They were exploring the wreck of the Benwood, a cargo ship that was transporting phosphate rocks when it collided with another ship and was then torpedoed by a German submarine during World War II.

I heard this story also but the second part was a little different. I was told that after the collision, the Capt purposely ran her aground and it was later deemed "unsafe" for navigation and so was demolished on site.

BTW, I was just there in Nov and dove the Benwood and you could not ask for a more relaxed dive.

Kara, my sincere sympathies go out to you and your family.

 

[deepstops]

I heard this story also but the second part was a little different. I was told that after the collision, the Capt purposely ran her aground and it was later deemed "unsafe" for navigation and so was demolished on site.

BTW, I was just there in Nov and dove the Benwood and you could not ask for a more relaxed dive.

Kara, my sincere sympathies go out to you and your family.

I believe the version you've quoted is correct and is the same story I've always been told about the Benwood.
What I posted is what the Miami Herald had written in their article.

 

[Jim Kerr]

I believe the version you've quoted is correct and is the same story I've always been told about the Benwood.
What I posted is what the Miami Herald had written in their article.

Yes I know, my apologies Brian. I should have included that in the post.

And that goes to show you just how inaccurate media reports can be. And, that is also why we should "all" be careful on commenting on what we read or hear thru the media. It's a shame, but their credibility really stinks.

 

[Jasonmh]

Hello,
...
I am Nancy Kreiter's daughter. I was there when the accident happened, and would like to add some additional information that may help clear up what some of the "official reports" say. ...

Sincerest condolences, our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.