Marine Archeology

[DameDykker]

Yes that is always a question. The answers are often found in very long hours dives into the archives of the country where the ship came from and were it sank and maybe where the rescue vessels - if any - came from.

If you "just" want to find a new wreck look at the old lists of sea accidents (don't know your local/country agency for that). Find out which vessels were later blasted (too make room for traffic), salvaged or otherwise destroyed and go look for the rest with a good boat equipped with sonar devices. If it looks promising dive it!

By the way the site of my archeological group as listed above does also contain an english translation. Here is the address again: http://www.rfg.subnet.dk

DSAO

 

[scubawench]

Glad to see a discussion about maritime archaeology on the web. And right off, you have all touched upon very sensitive subjects: wreck diving, salvaging, and, dare I say it...treasure hunting.

I have to say that I'm firmly on one side of the fence here as a nautical archaeologist, but I would like to hear people's thoughts on what exactly is permissive legally, as well as morally.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Welcome to the boards Scubawench, it's great to have you here. I'm also very interested in Marine Archeology. In my personal opinion only trained professionals should be removing artifacts from the ocean floor, in an effort to ensure they are not damaged in the process. Having finds properly documented, studied, examined and then displayed publicly is a treasure for us all. I'd hate to see divers who pilage monumental sites and display them in their living rooms or garages, robbing the rest of us of the privaledge. It is my understanding that most countries find this type of morally wrong behaviour, legally wrong as well.

 

[o2diver]

Here in Ontario we just had a fight with the Ontario Gov. about the same thing. It was put to the diving community that we where a bunch of thieves and the only reason we where diving was to strip the wrecks. How untrue.. The Bill that was being put forward would of limited the divers right to dive spacific sights. This was going to be based on historical value. When asked if the wrecks would ever be opened to the public the answer was at some point. With only one person in the Gov. doing the servey work, we would not be diving any new wrecks in my life time. I'm glade the bill is on the back burner and the Gov. has decided to work with the dive industry to come up with a law that will both protect our heratage and allow divers to enjoy it.
o2diver

 

[DameDykker]

Rereading my posts above I can see that I didn't make my point of view very clear. I think that divers plundering new and old wrecks is a nuisance and embarrassing. Here we had divers diving a newly sunk vessle even though there were still corpses on board. And I've seen the homepages of local clubs which states that a dive without brass in the bag is not worth while!
:fury:

Legally there are also big problems. It has habbende that the people trying to find out the sequence of events of an accident has found the scene of crime e.i. the wreck already disturbed by over-eager divers.

The harm these divers does to historical (and prehistorical) wrecks are probably unknown to a large extent. Mostly because of the money problem mentioned above. However, there is always the sneeking suspition that inplaceable knowledge is lost.
:livid:

Many of these things are difficult to do something about. I'm not sure I would start complaining :yelling: if I saw a boat full of divers ariving with their loot. However, I can always refuse to go diving with persons and clubs which do these things.

Are there any other ways us good divers can prevent/minimize the damage to our heritage?

 

[scubawench]

What I hear from you guys is very encouraging and promising. Unfortunately, in my experience, you are the few kindered spirits. One way which can discourage people from outright "looting" (because that is what it is, really) of shipwreck or underwater settlement sites has already been mentioned here, and I can't stress it enough: education, education, more education, and earnest involvement of divers in the archaeological, conservational and educational processes. Let's face it, without sport divers, many great shipwrecks would never be found (in fact, I was taught in grad school that when conducting a survey, as vital as spending time in archives is, talking to the local free divers/scuba divers is possibly more important---they are all a fount of information).

But, its what divers do after they discover the site that counts. After all, it is their history as well, but unfortunately, most people don't see it like that, and as reasonable people, we can't expect everyone to see the "light".

'nuff said.

 

[darkwing]

When is come to wrecks in the USA. The laws (Federal/State) are confusing and conflict. There was a resent article in Dive Training Mag. It was very good on the subjest. You must be very careful. I was working with a group in 1965 that wanted to raise the whole Monitor and the US government said no. 35 years later all they (US) can raise is peices. THis is who we are!! GOOD DIVING

 

[Loopy Diver]

I do Geology in school and hope to do somesort of archeology (preferably to do with diving). I love diving wrecks as like thinking about what could have happened on them and how different they would have looked from now!

 

[DameDykker]

Hey Loopy diver

Welcome to the board. I hope you'll have some good experiences with marine archeology. By the way, half of my dive club members are geologists and some times we might even do a bit of marine geology!

DSAO

 

[turnerjd]

Everyone says this is a v. complicated subject, however, it really isn't that difficult.

The vast majority of countries signed a treaty (I think it was brussels, and about 1911) which they then all turned into their own domestic law.

Certainly The UK, the USA, Canada, and most of the European countries operate in the same way. There will be some federal official (european speak - government beaurocrat) with a title similar to the 'receiver of wrecks'.

The sole job of the receiver of wrecks is to assess what is brought up / reported. They then decide on wether it is museum quality / importance etc.. and in the UK (and USA I think) they also determine renumeration for retrieving it, although this more applies to salvage.

In all the countries that signed the treaty it is illegal to NOT report the find - all the divers in the UK will know about this because they are having a clampdown on this.

Certainly there is more information about the UK clampdown and amnesty for those people that haven't reported finds on the SAA website , and the PADI website - might be hard to find though) and also the Receiver of Wrecks

Admiralty law is more complicated than this simple description, however is pretty much the same in most of the civilised world, certainly UK courts quote american ones, because they are all based on the same treaty.

Jon T

Postscript 8/2/01: - looked up the salvage treaty last night - Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules With Respect to Assistance and Salvage at Sea, Brussels, 23 / 9 / 1910.

The US ût this into law in Treaty Series 576

Was ammended in 1989 in the US to add environmental protection legislation.

Also, Law of finds is to be applied secondarily to the salvage treaty, and then in the two cases, 1) where the legal owner expressly and publically abandones the property, or, 2, no-one can be found to claim ownership.
- In the vast majority of cases, shipping companies merged, or were bought and some, however distant owner can be found.