Mares V16 issue or LDS problems?

[gary-ramey]

Long story but here goes. I've only been diving a couple of years and I've only owned my gear for a short time. At first, my wife and I purchased entry level regs. Mares R2 and liked them alot but after a year of diving they did start to breath a little harder. Upon finding out the price of a service on them ($130), I was a little shocked because I could almost buy them new again for that price. I think the reason is my LDS was a Scubapro Shop so they'd charge a little extra for the Mares. I then found a good deal on a Mares V16 ($150) that was "just serviced" by the previous owner and he had the paperwork. So I purchased it. I took it to the LDS to have them test it. They tell me the "high pressure seat" failed and that I would need a full service on it. Ha! so much for being thrifty. So I had it serviced. My wife loved it on her first dive trip and then on the 2nd trip (8 months after service) we discovered it was free flowing very gently. Upon returning from the trip I took it back to the LDS where they told me the high pressure seat had failed again. Now I know nothing about regulators but I've worked on a ton of different pieces of equipment and my instinct is telling me there's something wrong. Either the gear has a design, build flaw or the LDS is making a mistake during the service of it. Any ideas?

 

[Greg Barlow]

I have serviced many Mares regs over the years. The V16 model that you have most likely has the SCS (Spherical Core Seal) system for the HP valve. I have converted all of my personal Mares regs over to the new tri-material valve system, as long term testing by Mares has shown it to be very dependable. My own V16 Proton has been using the new type for around six months.

PM me, and I can get more details from you concerning the reg.

Greg Barlow
Former Science Editor for Rodale's Scuba Diving Magazine

 

[jacksatlanta]

Mares has had in the recent past a plethora of seat designs/changes/materails/etc. I'm not going to make an assumptions about the tech at your LDS but I have known more than one that has combined the wrong seat/spring/push pin in a Maresd 1st stg without realizing it. This is the only time I have seen a Mares HP seat fail with as little use as your describing, normally they last at least 50-100 dives or more. Like the previous poster said I suggest you get a trusted LDS to install an upgrade kit it.has the matched seat (hard and soft) and correct spring. Good luck.

 

[Arcaporale]

It's the HP seat itself which makes nearly all Mares regs expensive to overhaul. Many people think they are purchasing a budget reg and end up spending more to replace a dozen o-rings and a small piece of plastic than they did on the reg itself. My experience on Mares regs isn't too vast, but I've found that the upgraded HP seats tend to last 2 or more service intervals (depending how often it's used) before they need to be replaced.

 

[sytech]

I have a V-16 Proton and think it's superb. Have never heard anything about there being any problems with Mares regs..



Sy

I have serviced many Mares regs over the years. The V16 model that you have most likely has the SCS (Spherical Core Seal) system for the HP valve. I have converted all of my personal Mares regs over to the new tri-material valve system, as long term testing by Mares has shown it to be very dependable. My own V16 Proton has been using the new type for around six months.

PM me, and I can get more details from you concerning the reg.

Greg Barlow
Former Science Editor for Rodale's Scuba Diving Magazine

 

[Zak OHara]

Long story but here goes. I've only been diving a couple of years and I've only owned my gear for a short time. At first, my wife and I purchased entry level regs. Mares R2 and liked them alot but after a year of diving they did start to breath a little harder. Upon finding out the price of a service on them ($130), I was a little shocked because I could almost buy them new again for that price. I think the reason is my LDS was a Scubapro Shop so they'd charge a little extra for the Mares. I then found a good deal on a Mares V16 ($150) that was "just serviced" by the previous owner and he had the paperwork. So I purchased it. I took it to the LDS to have them test it. They tell me the "high pressure seat" failed and that I would need a full service on it. Ha! so much for being thrifty. So I had it serviced. My wife loved it on her first dive trip and then on the 2nd trip (8 months after service) we discovered it was free flowing very gently. Upon returning from the trip I took it back to the LDS where they told me the high pressure seat had failed again. Now I know nothing about regulators but I've worked on a ton of different pieces of equipment and my instinct is telling me there's something wrong. Either the gear has a design, build flaw or the LDS is making a mistake during the service of it. Any ideas?

ce4jesus.

I'll try to clarify a few things and also get you some help on your regulator. The V16 regulator you purchased is absolutely a good reg with no design flaws. As Greg mentioned above we have switched to a universal HP seat that fits all of our regulators except one. Our new Tri Material poppet has proven to be more durable and last longer than our previous HP seats. The V16 did use a spherical core seal (SCS) and can be upgraded into our new tri material poppet. The amount of time / dives used on your old scs seat doesn't justify a failure. While we can't assess the service performed previously from here, and we also don't know if anyparticles of ??? made it through the filter while diving / travelling / storage, resulting in scoring the seat and leading to free flow. I'd just chalk it up to bad luck.

If you like, PM me your address or your LDS and I will send you a complimentary tri material upgrade kit for your inconveniences. I also suggest in the future you use a Mares authorized dealer / service center to work on your regs. Theoretically they should be better trained, have access to new information (tri material upgrages), and most likely not charge you extra because they are servicing a brand they don't sell. We are in the process of conducting a new level of technical training, titled Mares Lab. It is the most up to date and indepth level of training we've ever offered. Those that go through this training will be considered Master technicians of Mares equipment. I can tell you from WA to CA non Mares dealers will not be included in this training. If you would like a recommendation on a few stores in your area, please ask in a pm. I'll have our district sales manager with local knowledge of your area recommend a few.

Best,

 

[texdiveguy]

I have had several V16 in service over several years with good results....and they are used often.

 

[Stu S.]

Hey, Zak.

After one year of diving my "Proton Metal V-16 Titan SCS", the first annual service is due. I purchased this from your largest Florida dealer, and I will return it to them for service. Should I expect the HP seat to be replaced with the latest version as part of a first annual service?

I have about 60 dives on it. All trouble-free.

Thanks / Stu.

 

[Zak OHara]

Stu,

It is not required yet recommended. If you prefer, I would suggest you request it when sending your regulator.

Best,

Zak

 

[Greg Barlow]

I suggest that the HP soft seat be replaced whenever any reg is serviced. The reason is that within a few cycles, the hard seat begins making a permanent impression in the soft seat's sealing surface. This is perfectly normal, and is necessary for a leak proof seal.

Whenever you look closely at the soft seat, you can see this impression in the material. Whenever the reg is reassembled, it is very rare that the two parts will be in the precise location that they were in previously. This means that you will have two concentric areas that have two points of intersection. In other words, two cirlces that slightly overlap at two points. These two intersecting points will usually cause a slight creep in the reg's intermediate pressure. Sometimes it doesn't create a problem, but in the majority of cases it will cause a slow creep.

My own experience with the new tri-material HP valve poppets is very encouraging. My regs have intermediate pressure that has no measurable creep after initial lock-up. I am keeping careful records on how many hours each reg has logged before the IP begins changing.

As I have said many times in the past...Mares makes regs that offer a lot of performance in a relatively simple package. Mine serve me extremely well from cave dives to leisurely recreational dives. How many other regs consistently earn the coveted US Navy Class "A" honors without using a balanced second stage? Not a whole lot...

The only thing that I wish for is a slightly larger version of the Proton, with an exhaust tee similar to the one used on the Atomic M1. Now that would cause me to retire my Mares Akros regs on my cave diving rig...

Greg Barlow
Former Science Editor for Rodale's Scuba Diving Magazine