Mares or Apeks

[Bubbletrubble]

One thing I don't like on the Mares is lack of user flow controls on reg

I believe that Mares has a special second stage design (Vortex Assisted Design -- VAD) that makes an inhalation adjustment knob less important (but I could be wrong about that). Sounds suspiciously like marketing BS to me, though.

As long as the cracking pressure on the second stage is adjusted properly (even in a non-Mares reg), it should perform just fine in the conditions you dive.

Regardless of what reg you end up getting, you should learn how to tweak the cracking pressure yourself by adjusting the lever height. Takes just a couple of minutes. You only need a couple of wrenches to pop the second stage off the LP hose and either a flathead screwdriver or appropriately sized allen wrench...and a container of water. It would suck to have to keep taking the reg back to the LDS for minor adjustments that are so easy to do.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Looking to upgrade from my old Apeks TX50 with Atx 40 occy.
Have been reasonably happy with Apeks with couple of issues.

My TX 50 has a bad habit of leaking water into my mouth in strong current. Think this is caused by a grain of sand on diaphramn seat. So I clean it thouroughly after each dive. But even then I can still have this issue, have had it regularly service and diaphramn replaced also

. Otherwise reg breathes great at all depths and I like the user flow controls on reg
The ATX 40 seems too sensitive and will free flow sometimes even with venturi control set to -

So as much as I do like my Apeks think I might like to try a Mares Abyss or similar, unless someone can convince me I wont have these issues with an XTX 50 or similar.

One thing I don't like on the Mares is lack of user flow controls on reg

Any opinions on these two regs?
My diving is mostly warm water sports diving with strong currents at times
Cheers

The Apeks is a fantastic reg, and if you are already familiar with them and generally happy (aside from what sounds like a simple service/tuning problem), I'd say stick with Apeks.

But if you are interested in Mares, I own and service several, and can discuss that a little:

The design philosophy between the Mares 2nd stage and the Apex (or any barrel poppet 2nd) is very different, but they both acheive the same result... assuming proper tuning.

I dive a Mares MR-22 Abyss, and also a Zeagle Flathead VI. The Zeagle 2nd stage is very similar in design to the Apex 2nd stage (balanced barrel poppet 2nd stage), which is not surprising if you know the history of both companies. The Mares 2nd is a "classic downstream", unbalanced 2nd, but it does have the VAD (vortex assist), which actually does work quite well, and sets it apart from other "classic downstream" designs.

The advantage the adjustable balanced 2nd's have (in my opinion) is that they can be de-tuned when needed to prevent freeflow when swimming into a current, when the soft seat begins to take a "set" between services, etc. Balanced adjustable 2nd's can also be tuned just slightly more agressively than classic downstreams ( they can be tuned to freeflow slightly when the adjustment knob is turned all the way out). However, many (most) techs will not tune a 2nd this aggressively, for fear of unwanted freeflows and angry customers.

In practice: You will probably not be able to tell the difference between a well-tuned, high quality unbalanced classic downstream and a balanced barrel poppet 2nd. Most people set their adjustment knobs to the easiest setting, and never touch them again.... and at the easiest setting on my aggressively tuned Zeagle, it just matches the breathing performance of my unadjustable Mares Abyss. I actually prefer the way the Mares breathes, but this is VERY subjective, and has to do with "feel", not ease of breathing.

Also, I service my own regs, and have found that the "factory" tuning on my Mares regs was conservative. It does take a little more time to correctly tune a "classic downstream" than it does a balanced adjustable (at least it takes me more time to get it "just right" ).

The two year service interval on the Mares refers to the replacement interval for the high pressure seat. The recommended service interval is still 1 year, but the high pressure seat is inspected each year, and replaced at a 2-year interval. I have found that the Mares regs I have can go about 2.5 years or so (probably longer, but I get uncomfortable going to long), but if you do not service your own equipment I do recommend getting them checked annually.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes.

 

[fot411]

First stage is the DST - I think- swivelling turret.
So if Apeks recommend 2 yearly service the Mares 2 year HP seat deal is no better. Maybe just better advertised.
My LDS actually call me annually to remind me to get service, sounds like they don't feel the need to tell me about Apeks only needing bi-annual service (and save me some $$$$)


Can't see a reason to leave Apeks

 

[h90]

Looking to upgrade from my old Apeks TX50 with Atx 40 occy.
Have been reasonably happy with Apeks with couple of issues.

My TX 50 has a bad habit of leaking water into my mouth in strong current. Think this is caused by a grain of sand on diaphramn seat. So I clean it thouroughly after each dive. But even then I can still have this issue, have had it regularly service and diaphramn replaced also

. Otherwise reg breathes great at all depths and I like the user flow controls on reg
The ATX 40 seems too sensitive and will free flow sometimes even with venturi control set to -

So as much as I do like my Apeks think I might like to try a Mares Abyss or similar, unless someone can convince me I wont have these issues with an XTX 50 or similar.

One thing I don't like on the Mares is lack of user flow controls on reg

Any opinions on these two regs?
My diving is mostly warm water sports diving with strong currents at times
Cheers

I have the Abyss, the 2005 model and the model before.
It does not breath as super easy as some other regulator, specially when you breath extreme slow. But I can not tell any difference between 2 meter deep and 50 meter. I would actually say at 50 meter it breath even easier.
when opening it, it is almost empty inside, very simple technic. There nothing that can brake. I know a couple of people who never service it and it does not fail.
The older one was second hand. looked very bad (I think they used it more as hammer than as regulator. 10 year no service. inside dirty...but worked like new.
One negative point it is heavy, really heavy.
With the original hose it pull strong.
The original mouthpiece is too small for me.

For me it is a tractor...I never think about it, I never worry about it, I don't adjust something.....it just works.

 

[hg frogman]

I also noticed the Abyss breathes slightly better at 50 meters than at 3 meters.
For me too this reg is a workhorse, or a "tractor" as you say.

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

I've had a MR22 Abyss for about 10 years.I dive the cold waters of the Great Lakes and it has never given me a second of trouble. It is a workhorse reg. I bought the Abyss because it didn't have any adjustments. Why would you want to buy a reg that needs to be adjusted while diving?

 

[fot411]

I like having some control over my airflow during a dive, save air when taking it easy and ramp it up when working hard. Also if I did have a freeflow, say in very strong current, might have some chance of rectifying it. Just like the idea of having some control.

Can anyone guide me as to buying either XTX 40,50 or 100. They are all in my price range
Cheers

 

[coralcruiser]

I like having some control over my airflow during a dive, save air when taking it easy and ramp it up when working hard. Also if I did have a freeflow, say in very strong current, might have some chance of rectifying it. Just like the idea of having some control.

Can anyone guide me as to buying either XTX 40,50 or 100. They are all in my price range
Cheers

Since you don't live in the US... try scubastore.com or lucasdivestore.com
Both are in europe and ship worldwide. I know they have decent pricing for apeks compared to pricing here in the states.

Have heard very good comments from people who have ordered through scubastore

 

[Kern]

I like having some control over my airflow during a dive, save air when taking it easy and ramp it up when working hard. Also if I did have a freeflow, say in very strong current, might have some chance of rectifying it. Just like the idea of having some control.

Can anyone guide me as to buying either XTX 40,50 or 100. They are all in my price range
Cheers

XTX 40 & 50 will be supplied with a DST 1st stage (T=Turret, low pressure ports swivel). If you don't want the swivel turret ask for the DS4. The DST has 2 high pressure outlets, the DS4 has 1. They both have 4 low pressure ports. The 40 2nd stage has a venturi control but no cracking pressure control. The 50 2nd stage has both.

The 100 1st stage (FST) has 4 low pressure ports & 2 high pressure ports. The 100 2nd stage is the same as the 50 & 200 2nd stage internally with external cosmetic variations.

PS. I get all my regs from scubastore, in fact should have another DS4 50 arriving tomorrow. I gave up dealing with Aquanuts OZ a long time ago.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

I like having some control over my airflow during a dive, save air when taking it easy and ramp it up when working hard. Also if I did have a freeflow, say in very strong current, might have some chance of rectifying it. Just like the idea of having some control.

Can anyone guide me as to buying either XTX 40,50 or 100. They are all in my price range

Well, the XTX50 and XTX100 have an inhalation adjustment knob, whereas the XTX40 does not. The inhalation adjustment knob doesn't increase or decrease flow rate, per se...but it does adjust the cracking pressure.

I have both ATX50 and ATX100 second stages. The only differences between the two are cosmetic. Apeks tends to package certain second stages with certain first stages. I believe that the ATX50 was sold with the DST, whereas the ATX100 was paired with the FST. I like the location of the LP ports on my FST first stage. If you don't like the swivel turret of the DST, then you should consider the DS4. Be forewarned that the DS4 only has 1 HP port. Not a big deal for most folks.

My Apeks recommendations:
Best value package: XTX50 + DS4
I wouldn't pay extra for the XTX200 over the XTX100.
Stay away from the Apeks first stages with the electronic "Status" feature. It's the equivalent of an idiot light for divers. Ridiculous technology if you ask me. Spend a few bucks on a good quality IP gauge instead.