Manufacturer condones Warsaw Grouper slaughter

[peterbkk]

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What, out of curiosity, is your opinion on other matters? Say, recreational fishing, spearfishing while freediving, and major long-line commercial operations? Just curious.

I am a bit reluctant to share opinions on this board, given the reaction to my first attempt to share opinion. I don't want to be accused of trolling because that is not my intention. But here goes:

Recreational Fishing: IMO, OK but needs to be well-managed. Recreational fishermen should hold an annual license. To obtain that permit, they should be tested on fish management knowledge. They should demonstrate that they know which fish to take, what the limits are, size limits, seasons, etc. The regulations need to be regularly updated based on a scientific analysis of fish species status. Needs to be policed because they'll always be a bunch of people who ignore the regulations.

Spearfishing while Freediving: IMO, its the same as recreational fishing. Nothing wrong with it if is managed. It would be lovely if it was self-managed but human nature being what it is, I can not see that happening. I have done spearfishing myself. It is quite a challenge. I don't do it any more but, if managed, I don't mind if others want to catch their dinner this way. Same management required as for recreational fishing.

Spearfishing on Scuba: I have only done this once in my life and that was to catch dinner and at the time I was too pooped to freedive. It was all too easy (5 minutes to return with a nice big Trevally) so I have to wonder if it is very sporting. I don't mind if others want to catch their dinner this way. Same management required as for recreational fishing.

All Commercial Fishing (long line or otherwise): IMO, if the human race doesn't sort this out soon, most fish will be a vague memory and our grandchildren will only see limited types of farmed fish. Not only that but the whole marine environment will be so out of balance that it is anyone's guess what the end result will be. I have no idea who is going to sort this out and it worries me. The effects of overfishing and inappropriate fishing techniques are everywhere. In the 25 years that I have been scuba diving, I have seen all sorts of changes resulting from the massive increase in commercial fishing. Should we stop eating fish? Well, this ain't going to happen. But, should we, especially those who love the sea, try to learn which fish stocks are sustainable and select judiciously? I hope so.

I'd like to see most scuba divers, who by their very nature love the ocean, take up the cause of promoting protection and management. Most scuba divers that I meet these days in this part of the world do have strong opinions about ocean protection and do want to be seen to be doing the right thing. Hence my reaction to the article on the manufacturer's website.

Regards
Peter

 

[Somethin-Fishey]

I am a bit reluctant to share opinions on this board, given the reaction to my first attempt to share opinion. I don't want to be accused of trolling because that is not my intention. But here goes:

Recreational Fishing: IMO, OK but needs to be well-managed. Recreational fishermen should hold an annual license. To obtain that permit, they should be tested on fish management knowledge. They should demonstrate that they know which fish to take, what the limits are, size limits, seasons, etc. The regulations need to be regularly updated based on a scientific analysis of fish species status. Needs to be policed because they'll always be a bunch of people who ignore the regulations.

Spearfishing while Freediving: IMO, its the same as recreational fishing. Nothing wrong with it if is managed. It would be lovely if it was self-managed but human nature being what it is, I can not see that happening. I have done spearfishing myself. It is quite a challenge. I don't do it any more but, if managed, I don't mind if others want to catch their dinner this way. Same management required as for recreational fishing.

Spearfishing on Scuba: I have only done this once in my life and that was to catch dinner and at the time I was too pooped to freedive. It was all too easy (5 minutes to return with a nice big Trevally) so I have to wonder if it is very sporting. I don't mind if others want to catch their dinner this way. Same management required as for recreational fishing.

All Commercial Fishing (long line or otherwise): IMO, if the human race doesn't sort this out soon, most fish will be a vague memory and our grandchildren will only see limited types of farmed fish. Not only that but the whole marine environment will be so out of balance that it is anyone's guess what the end result will be. I have no idea who is going to sort this out and it worries me. The effects of overfishing and inappropriate fishing techniques are everywhere. In the 25 years that I have been scuba diving, I have seen all sorts of changes resulting from the massive increase in commercial fishing. Should we stop eating fish? Well, this ain't going to happen. But, should we, especially those who love the sea, try to learn which fish stocks are sustainable and select judiciously? I hope so.

I'd like to see most scuba divers, who by their very nature love the ocean, take up the cause of promoting protection and management. Most scuba divers that I meet these days in this part of the world do have strong opinions about ocean protection and do want to be seen to be doing the right thing. Hence my reaction to the article on the manufacturer's website.

Regards
Peter

You may have "Easily" shot a fish on Scuba, and if you ever try again Hogfish will almost certainly charge your spear also. They are easy to hunt. Grouper, however. normally do not fall into that category. They have good eyesight and most "Fear the bubbles"


Personally, I am with the majority here:

They did NOTHING illegal
The fish was consumed and not wasted
They were at 425 FSW!!!!!!!!!!
They used a particular brand of gear


I went out and purchased a new Zeagle regulator mostly because of this, so I could compare breathing as I am diving more frequent and deeper than before. I have a nice BC, but when I'm ready for a BP/W it will most likely be a Zeagle also. Combine this story with customer service that can only be matched by very few companies, they will get ALOT of my hard earned dollars in the future.

 

[Kim]

They did NOTHING illegal
The fish was consumed and not wasted
They were at 425 FSW!!!!!!!!!!
They used a particular brand of gear


I went out and purchased a new Zeagle regulator mostly because of this, so I could compare breathing as I am diving more frequent and deeper than before. I have a nice BC, but when I'm ready for a BP/W it will most likely be a Zeagle also. Combine this story with customer service that can only be matched by very few companies, they will get ALOT of my hard earned dollars in the future.

I think that everyone has realized that by now. It doesn't though alter the fact that no company, Zeagle or otherwise will improve their reputation in certain parts of the world by openly condoning what IS ILLEGAL there - you see it's those pesky cultural differences! In the same way American divers are also expected to conform to local rules just like everyone else. Of course you can choose to ignore that completely - but that won't improve your image at all.
There are two sides to this and depending where you are the 'majority' shifts. In the meantime SB is an International board that doesn't play favorites. Opinions are fine - personal attacks are not.

 

[Kim]

To me, this is trolling, posting such strong feelings, so strongly worded, as to elicit a strong response...

I thought that a troll was someone who posted something which they themselves cared little about with the sole purpose of eliciting strong responses. I don't really see how someone who obviously believes in what they are posting very strongly could ever be a troll. Maybe we have a definition problem here!

 

[Hoyden]

I am a bit reluctant to share opinions on this board, given the reaction to my first attempt to share opinion. I don't want to be accused of trolling because that is not my intention.

It is hard to judge someone's intent based solely on the words that he/she types. In that case you are pretty much reduced to looking at the words chosen to express his/her ideas. Your choice of words like "murder" and "slaughter" seem to give a clear indication of bias and IMO, are responsible for the troll label.

To answer your oringinal question, no one I know who is an avid diver (which I suspect is Zeagle's tartget market given their product line) would be inclined to boycott Zeagle over their support of spearfishing. I consider myself to be very interested in protecting the oceans and back that interest up with both volunteer time and money - I have no problem with responsible spearfishing. I like to eat fish and can see no more responsible way to procure fish than by selecting the individual animal - no by-catch, no waste. In the big scheme of things, even if it could be proved that legal, regulated spearfishing was not sustainable and produced long term environmental damage, it would be so far down on the list of things that worrying about it and spending time on it would be counter productive. You might consider it after resolving commercial fishing issues, land management/coastal developement issues, etc. From a public perception issue, perhaps your question is indicative of the need for more public education.

JMO,
Jackie Cooper

 

[Somethin-Fishey]

I think that everyone has realized that by now. It doesn't though alter the fact that no company, Zeagle or otherwise will improve their reputation in certain parts of the world by openly condoning what IS ILLEGAL there - you see it's those pesky cultural differences! In the same way American divers are also expected to conform to local rules just like everyone else. Of course you can choose to ignore that completely - but that won't improve your image at all.
There are two sides to this and depending where you are the 'majority' shifts. In the meantime SB is an International board that doesn't play favorites. Opinions are fine - personal attacks are not.

I understand cultural differences.... I have visited your country on many occasions and have stepped on my toes more than once. I try not to violate any customs I am aware of, but they seem to creep out of the woodwork sometimes.

I would never and I'm pretty sure Zeagle would never try to go to a different country and do what is illegal. When I went to Cozumel, we saw huge grouper in the marine sanctuary. I wanted to shoot them, but it was never a question in my mind that I couldn't because it is against the law.

I would not start a post in the manner in which this person did. I would have asked more of a question with a deep "Why" attitude rather than start out already convinced it was immoral or something.... especially when I didn't know the laws of that particular state or country.

 

[Kim]

I understand cultural differences.... I have visited your country on many occasions and have stepped on my toes more than once. I try not to violate any customs I am aware of, but they seem to creep out of the woodwork sometimes.

I would never and I'm pretty sure Zeagle would never try to go to a different country and do what is illegal. When I went to Cozumel, we saw huge grouper in the marine sanctuary. I wanted to shoot them, but it was never a question in my mind that I couldn't because it is against the law.

I would not start a post in the manner in which this person did. I would have asked more of a question with a deep "Why" attitude rather than start out already convinced it was immoral or something.... especially when I didn't know the laws of that particular state or country.

I agree with you. (except my country is not Japan.....just my wife and my country of residence! )
The first post was rather unfortunately worded IMO. This cultural thing cuts both ways as you note. I just thought I'd bring it up to try to take the heat out of a debate that was getting a little out of hand and try and let people see it from both points of view - with a little less venom. I am also quite sure that Zeagle is not at fault here. I'd be proud as whatever if the gear I made could safely take folks safely that deep and allow them to pursue their legal objective. There are a lot of major companies that approach advertising differently depending on where they are though!

 

[chip104]

Peter,

Like I said before, I am a recent convert to pro scuba spearfishing. I know in these parts of the world it is against the majority since most people here frown upon it. I've gotten into many arguments with other divers.

One of the arguments I say to them is that with all the illegal fishing that occurs in these parts: muro ami, cyanide and dynamite to name a few, how can they not condone spearfishing? No by catch and no damage to surrounding environment.

IMO, I think overfishing is one of the driving forces behind why scuba spearfishing is frowned upon. Since it is mostly local coastal families in their small boats doing the fishing (and not large commercial vessels), they feel they don't need a recreational diver catching what they need for their livelihood. Around here a local village fishingman's council has a lot of pull in the local government.

So while I do agree with you that scuba divers do have an obligation to promote protection and management, I think scuba spearfishermen are within the scope. If you want to talk about resource sustainability, again, scuba spearfishermen are within the scope when compared to the other illegal activities that go on around here.


I challenge everyone else in the thread to give an informative answer to Peter without flaming him. Maybe you'll convert him like you all did with me so he can spread the word around these parts that it isn't bad at all.

 

[MarkH]

I'd like to see most scuba divers, who by their very nature love the ocean, take up the cause of promoting protection and management. Most scuba divers that I meet these days in this part of the world do have strong opinions about ocean protection and do want to be seen to be doing the right thing. Hence my reaction to the article on the manufacturer's website.

Regards
Peter

Carefull...... most divers on this board hate marine life (or at least wouldn't mind if the wolfeel/grouper/moray they saw during a dive was speared). All you have to do is start a thread on whales and you'll see what I mean. Maybe they're right though. After all, since the advent of scuba, the population of large fish in shallow coastal waters has gone up right?

 

[jbilicska]

If a fish is listed as CRITCALLY ENDANGERED it does not mean that if a Country chooses not to abide by International guidelines we can still kill them for sport and/or food with a clear conscience . Yes longlines,cyanide dynamite etc. are a lot worst but we as Divers and Sportsmen should not add to the problem.
Joe B