Mandatory tracking device for divers?

[kwinter]

I don’t need a gaggle of lawyers telling me to carry XY or Z for my own good. I know more about my own good than anyone else on earth.

Yup, your statement about refusing to wear seat belts and fooling the safety systems in your car speak volumes about how you know more about your own good. Despite the admonition from the mod, I have to say that there is nary a soul on earth that doesn't recognize that seat belts save lives.

Here's one more thought for those of you who don't like the the word "mandatory"...

The OP's use of the word doesn't necessarily refer to the government passing laws mandating the use of a tracker. I think that some of us with a libertarian bent automatically assumed that was what was being suggested, but there isn't much precedent for actual laws about scuba diving. If you read the OP, government and legislation weren't mentioned.

However, lots of dive operators in my area (NYC) mandate a redundant gas supply, an SMB and a surface signaling device. That's their prerogative, and I can certainly see some operators in the future requiring transponders for big dives, if they became reliable, cheap and small.

We are on the same page.

But I do know that a LOT of the friends and family members of a missing diver REALLY would like to have some information, explanation and closure. And I'm stating that based on my OWN experiences, twice in the past month, not on "presumptions". Based on frantically texting friends in the middle of the night. Based on compulsively checking and rechecking the Coast Guard website. Based on knowing that there is a big difference between an academic hypothetical and horrifying reality.

I think it's important to distinguish between 2 completely separate events that people posting seem to confuse. One is being lost or disabled underwater while on a dive. The other is being lost while on the surface. A PLB or Lifeline does no good under water but can be a lifesaver on the surface. Even those who think they and their families have made peace with the possibility of not returning from a dive should recognize the complete lack of peace you would face while floating fully conscious in stormy seas for 10 hours after the boat broke its mooring and couldn't find you. I bought my PLB right after that happened to a friend of mine and have carried it on every dive since.

And a transceiver like a Pieps that I mentioned earlier would be of limited use for a diver lost underwater until all other divers returned. A transceiver like that is set for transmit mode while you would be diving. Unless all divers in the area were alerted to the missing diver and switched their transceiver to receiving mode, there would be pinging from everywhere and no way to locate the lost diver. So the chances of rescue are limited. But the chances of recovery to bring closure would be much enhanced. And while I wouldn't want anyone to risk their own safety to recover my useless corpse, the recovery of my rebreather and other gear could bring thousands of dollars to my widow.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

EDIT - I don't know why the multiquote function is attributing all quotes to AfterDark in Tapatalk. The latter 2 quotes are obviously from doctormike

 

[dmaziuk]

You are correct and I do test them before deployment, just like the rest of the systems on the UUV.

Sure, but I was referring to your earlier post that said the receivers are expensive (several thousand $), but the dead diver doesn't need to buy the receiver, just tell what frequency range you are using and the Coast Guard, Navy and other agencies have the gear to hear it. Well, that's not true though: the still alive diver does need to buy the receiver if they want to do a pre-flight check and aren't the one in umpteen thousands who can hear ultrasound. Or whatever frequency their device is emitting. Or you can just take it on trust that it it "should be working" and jump in the water.

Also before you guys star throwing all that in the water to locate your future dead corpse, get closure for the family and yadah yadah; remember there are creatures down there that won't appreciate all that cacophony going on.

Right. At least Navimate claims "low-level noise-like sounds" that "will have no impact on marine life" (I'd've used should there myself).

 

[AfterDark]

Yup, your statement about refusing to wear seat belts and fooling the safety systems in your car speak volumes about how you know more about your own good. Despite the admonition from the mod, I have to say that there is nary a soul on earth that doesn't recognize that seat belts save lives.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

EDIT - I don't know why the multiquote function is attributing all quotes to AfterDark in Tapatalk. The latter 2 quotes are obviously from doctormike

Which post did I state seat belts didn't save lives? I just stated I don't use one or the air bag. There was a time I could live my life without breaking laws but people like you that know what's best for everyone else have now made it impossible. The seat belt post was just a way to illustrate that laws like those are unenforceable. As would mandatory locators for divers. Mandatory on charters is fine with me as long as they don't expect me to buy one. In 2050 dives and 45 years I've gone on three (3) charters. So charter ops have at!

 

[Nemrod]

I understand the OPs distress, however, the "mandatory" part does not work for me. Now, if a dive operator requires them and like so many do, have them on the boat like they often do SMBs I will certainly comply, gladly. But I do not want any laws or regulations requiring such a device for universal use.

N

 

[gypsyjim]

I have not read the thread, but the word Mandatory, and diving seldom, if ever go well together...

 

[AfterDark]

I have not read the thread, but the word Mandatory, and diving seldom, if ever go well together...

About the only thing I can think of is mandatory deco stop.

 

[BRT]

About the only thing I can think of is mandatory deco stop.

Nope. Some people blow those off and get away with it.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I think there are two issues here

1. Taking responsibility to ensure you are visible at the surface to ensure you are picked up after a dive. For this I carry an air horn on my LPI and I use an AP DSMB that is inflated with a crack bottle.
At the surface it is a rigid tube 6' tall, so rigid that it can be held at the base in on hand and waved high in the air.
On a number of dives in different locations where we've surfaced away from where the boat expected U.S. and or in 3'-4' swells both of these items have ensured that the pick up saw/heard us and we were picked up sooner than we might have been other wise.

2. Sub surface. I know of a local incident with a rebreather diver.
He was in a team of 3 had an issue during descent and signalled he was returning to the surface. He was seen by another buddy pair descending down the line at approx 20m where he signalled okay. He was never seen again.

Even advanced subsurface search tool were flown in by his family. Nothing.The only way a sub surface tool will work is if it's always transmitting, and the boat has a receiver. It may not work in a wreck for instance.

I dive in a place that boats (other that commercial ships) don't have radios. Even having your own VHF handheld to support a lifeline is technically against the law without a licence.

The only way it could be mandotary is if boats carried the receiver first.That said if a reliable device was available I would probably have one (perhaps fitted to the cam band)it would need a normal pinger and perhaps a user trigger able one (oh sh1t pinger) if you had the ability to trigger it. Of course we know that it's not always possible

But first and foremost I don't think anything should be legislated (which will only apply in some areas anyway) it should be the diver who is responsible for carrying such aids. You either want to be found or not. I try to think not of myself but closure for my family. As said before abstract conversations held around the breakfast table are a huge distance away from feeling after an incident.

In my case I want others to have the best chance possible to find me. Especially as I always carry more gas than is needed for my run time. As well as ensuring that I even if I'm dead so the aftermath doesn't matter to me I've done all I can for my family. In the same way as ensuring financial provisions are made.

Imagine a situation where you've exceeded you return time but still have air but no way of signalling to the surface......

 

[Storker]

I dive in a place that boats (other that commercial ships) don't have radios. Even having your own VHF handheld to support a lifeline is technically against the law without a licence.

You need a license to operate a marine VHF up here as well. I don't have one of those. However, I have a handheld VHF which has been programmed to be able to send and receive on channel 16, and I take it with me on my boat if there's a remote chance I'll go outside of cell phone coverage. AFAIK, that's allowed as long as I don't use it on one of the marine or emergency channels.

If SHTF, I wouldn't think twice about turning it on, switching to channel 16 and sending out a mayday or a pan pan even if I can't transmit legally on channel 16 or one of the marine channels. If they fine me for it, I'll claim necessity, and if that doesn't work, I'll bite the bullet and pay the fine.

I have no problem bending or breaking the rules in an emergency. Life is infinitely more precious than rules or money.

 

[AfterDark]

Nope. Some people blow those off and get away with it.

Yeah but it's still where the word mandatory and diving go together even if some don't do it. ]
Much better than lets say a law that mandates a diver tow a flag and float all around. Ever get a float line caught on a lobster pot line at 10fsw while you're diving at 1000fsw? Why can't I move?!?! What a PITA!