Malta Extradition

[sebach]

According to statistics I found, in the UK there is an average 5000 request per year and an average 1000 extradition per year, in this system.
It is divided in 60 statistical categories of crime, some appearing to be quite minor, and Grievous Bodily Harm, which might be what the OP is accused of, represent about 10%.

 

[Freewillow]

Hi Sebach, nice to see you on this forum, away from our plongeur.co . Le monde est petit

In your statistics, do you have the statistics on UK nationals? It is one thing to extradite a foreigner back to his country or a national. Can you imagine, if Turkey joins the EEC, to be expatriate there, as a french citizen? Pretty scary ;(.

Please be aware that I have no position on opp's responsability in the discussed matter.

 

[boulderjohn]

I know of Instructors showing certification for lower levels of training while on vacation, to avoid being labeled "an Instructor", to avoid any perceived responsibility for other divers.
Once some ops see that card they tend to see the diver as a part of their tool box/team, rather than as a vacationing diver.

That has often been argued, but until now I have never heard of a professional being held liable for anything happening on a dive for which they were not acting as a professional.

In post #14, the OP wrote:

... the locals are outraged at what is happening and the Tourist Board and local Diving Schools are outraged and fearful of the affect this will have on the Diving Industry in Malta

I would certainly think so.

When Gabe Watson got the manslaughter charge for the death of his wife while diving with him in Australia, legal experts were shocked. Although the Wikipedia version of the story inaccurately leaves out these details, expert analysis indicated that the only thing he was guilty of was not being competent enough in his diving skills to rescue his wife. The manslaughter charge was based on a rule only found in that jurisdiction that required him to be more competent in his role as a buddy--his failure to rescue his wife expertly was determined to be manslaughter. Such laws apparently do not exist elsewhere, and to my knowledge that law has not since been invoked in that region, either. It is mind-numbing to think of the consequences if that sort of ruling were to become routine.

This one seems to go even beyond that case. It is hard to believe that the account we are given can be true, but I have no reason to doubt it other than that incredulity.

I have never before considered a dive trip to Malta, but you can be darn sure I won't be considering it in the future.

 

[Freewillow]

I read the articles from Malta. There have been more than these 2 deads in a few months in the same spot. Everybody is questioning why the authorities do nothing about it. Since they could find a foreign scapgoat, they took this opportunity. Malta for me, is clearly off my list .
What I do not understand, if the account from the opp is the right one, why the UK authorities are autorising this.

 

[stephen.martin]

Thank you Freewillow for what I (Hopefully) think is your support...rest assured I have only reported the facts, the case is sub judice and anyone is allowed to report the facts, however, the British Sub Aqua Club are refusing me access to their insurance which comes with membership of the organisation, If I dared express an opinion here then I'm sure the post would be struck out

Their insurance refusal is for what amounts to criminal cover, however if I accidentally run somebody over with our club boat that would also result in a criminal case for negligence and I would also be denied insurance, its just some way of wriggling out of your responsibilities, you need to make sure you are covered for all insurance risks

For the records I have been banned from the BSAC's forum and they will not any respond to other concerned divers, especially anyone who might find themselves in a similar situation, I guess they would simply ban them too and refuse comments from any other concerned divers who might find themselves in the same sad situation

I merely reported the facts and when it goes to court I will indeed report the whole truth and any dishonesty I discover

Steve Martin

I read the articles from Malta. There have been more than these 2 deads in a few months in the same spot. Everybody is questioning why the authorities do nothing about it. Since they could find a foreign scapgoat, they took this opportunity. Malta for me, is clearly off my list .
What I do not understand, if the account from the opp is the right one, why the UK authorities are autorising this.

 

[Freewillow]

Thank you Mate . Having said this, let me remind you my previous statement "Please be aware that I have no position on opp's responsability in the discussed matter."

I am sure that you understand that anybody that was not a eye witness would have an impossible time to take part. Having said that, if what you are reporting is the truth and the whole truth, you have all my sympathy.

 

[stephen.martin]

see here English woman dies while diving at Dwejra in Gozo - police - The Malta Independent

and here German diver dies in Gozo - MaltaToday.com.mt

and here Briton dies off Malta - Divernet

and sadly here also 3 divers dead off Malta Sea - ANTARA News

It seems its a bit of an accident black spot I wouldn't have gone anywhere near the place

And what do the Maltese do...they look for a foreigner to blame, and if I knew this before I would have stayed well away from it....it was a holiday not a suicide mission...but the Maltese want the money and will do nothing to help...just look at their dive boats https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...JmO_a-cTM:&usg=__UzHmRSuIiz4oNCZKK9Iv24jntMU= nothing but fishing boats making a fast buck on an unsuitable dangerous boat if someone dies on one of these trips it'll be the foreigners fault

This case will cause serious repercussions if somebody doesn't start doing something unless I fall down three flights of stairs with handcuffs on when I get extradited...rest assure I wont slip

Steve Martin

boats

Thank you Freewillow for what I (Hopefully) think is your support...rest assured I have only reported the facts, the case is sub judice and anyone is allowed to report the facts, however, the British Sub Aqua Club are refusing me access to their insurance which comes with membership of the organisation, If I dared express an opinion here then I'm sure the post would be struck out

Their insurance refusal is for what amounts to criminal cover, however if I accidentally run somebody over with our club boat that would also result in a criminal case for negligence and I would also be denied insurance, its just some way of wriggling out of your responsibilities, you need to make sure you are covered for all insurance risks

For the records I have been banned from the BSAC's forum and they will not any respond to other concerned divers, especially anyone who might find themselves in a similar situation, I guess they would simply ban them too and refuse comments from any other concerned divers who might find themselves in the same sad situation

I merely reported the facts and when it goes to court I will indeed report the whole truth and any dishonesty I discover

Steve Martin

---------- Post added August 1st, 2015 at 11:42 PM ----------

The initial incident was reported on this forum when it happened last year search "British couple dead on Gozo" . however it has moved a long way on since then

And they were not a couple, she had been my partner for five years...my BSAC account is still locked out and the message says
You have been banned for the following reason:
Persistent posting "Sub Justice".
Date the ban will be lifted: Never

Steve

 

[sebach]

In your statistics, do you have the statistics on UK nationals? It is one thing to extradite a foreigner back to his country or a national.

National Crime Agency - Wanted from the UK: European Arrest Warrant statistics 2009 - April 2014
Actually British citizen arrested are a small minority compared to other nationals residents in the UK.
One has to remember the previous situation : it took for the UK 10 year (and the islamist's London bombings) to extradite in France an Algerian national resident and refugee in the UK, mastermind of the 1995 bombings in Paris.
You can easily find similar examples of extradition refusals or extradition process taking forever inside Europe, including one's where France is not at its greatest.


Regarding the OP situation : we have no way to access the real situation, but investigation/trial is the norm in this king of case if a lot of countries. Note that the European Arrest Warrant can only be used for criminal prosecution not investigation.
If he had already been judged in the UK, UK would have to refuse the extradition, or if he is currently prosecuted in the UK or the UK prosecutorial authorities refuse to prosecute him, the extradition could be refused by UK judicial authority.

 

[Tom Winters]

Good luck with this case. "Failure to render first aid underwater". That's a good one - never heard of that before. Glad your MP is putting some effort into this.

Sounds like Malta and the BSAC can go eff themselves.

 

[Centrals]

Steven Martin,
You ought to bring the matter to the President of BSAC(Prince William) for his attention.
Good luck to your case.
I would never bring my Rescue Card if I ever go diving in Malta.