Make dive wing retractable (or smaller when not fully inflated)

[bradells]

So you bought/gifted yourself the wrong wing with your tanks?

If there is no way you're going to get a proper wing for your tanks, then get proper tanks for your wing.

Another issue about bungie wings that has not been mentioned yet is that it will decrease the amount of lift your wings will give.

The OPV generally kicks in with a few pounds of excess pressure, once you restrict the wing (with bungie or other material), once you get to its new capacity, the restraining material will not stretch any further, resulting in your OPV operating too soon, causing loss of potential lift.

If you NEED that 60lbs of lift in an emergency (bringing up a fellow diver), and the wing is restricted somehow, you will not have 60lbs of lift.

Get the proper wing for your tank, or get the proper tanks for your wing. Simple as that.



BRad

 

[redacted]

So you bought/gifted yourself the wrong wing with your tanks?

If there is no way you're going to get a proper wing for your tanks, then get proper tanks for your wing.

Another issue about bungie wings that has not been mentioned yet is that it will decrease the amount of lift your wings will give.

The OPV generally kicks in with a few pounds of excess pressure, once you restrict the wing (with bungie or other material), once you get to its new capacity, the restraining material will not stretch any further, resulting in your OPV operating too soon, causing loss of potential lift.

If you NEED that 60lbs of lift in an emergency (bringing up a fellow diver), and the wing is restricted somehow, you will not have 60lbs of lift.

Get the proper wing for your tank, or get the proper tanks for your wing. Simple as that.



BRad

Why would you need extra lift to bring up a diver if both you and the other diver were properly weighted and equipped?

 

[bradells]

Why would you need extra lift to bring up a diver if both you and the other diver were properly weighted and equipped?

A couple of reasons.

Firstly, you would ideally only manipulate one source of buoyancy to get yourselves both safely to the surface in a rescue situation. The less number of air pockets to manage a reasonable ascent the easier it becomes. Two divers with wings, and drysuits present 4 sources of air expansion areas to keep track of. In an emergency, that's a lot to keep on top of with everything going on. Using one wing/BC and keeping a slow ascent rate with drysuits venting properly is easier than being launched to the surface trying to vent 4 OPV at the same time.

Once your on the surface, use any and all sources of buoyancy to keep you afloat.


Secondly, you always plan for worst case scenarios. In this scenario that's when you are your heaviest, at the start of the dive with lots of heavy gas in your tanks.

A balanced rig is with minimal gas in your tanks (for at the end of your dive), not tanks with 10-20lbs negative worth of gas. Make that two divers and your already looking at 20-40 lbs of extra weight you won't have at the end if a dive with close to empty tanks (assuming double tanks)

So with the OP having the wrong size and style of wing with their current tanks, they could have troubles venting all gas from the wing, let alone someone from their team trying to assist them to the surface, trying to vent their oversized wing. Now they want to add material to make it 'not as big'. This can cause extra pockets for gas to be trapped, further making it harder to get trapped gas out.

Or in the case of the OP rescuing another diver, now with their bungied 50lb wing, maybe they have 30lbs of lift available, with 40lbs of gas and maybe that diver has an extra 10lbs of non ditch able lead for whatever reason (likes to keep a drysuit lofty, different undergarments, no recent weight check with configuration, new unknown gear, etc) I'd rather have the 50lb wing with proper tanks to help my buddy in an emergency. Heck, you'd probably never have to buy the first round after a dive with them again!

It's not just the safety of the OP 'not diving deep, or wreck penetrations', but their buddy/team while diving the wrong system altogether.

Under water is underwater, no matter how shallow and hard ceiling or not.


BRad

 

[Ricky B]

A balanced rig is with minimal gas in your tanks (for at the end of your dive), not tanks with 10-20lbs negative worth of gas.

You are only half correct.

A balanced rig is one that:

1. allows the diver to maintain neutral buoyancy at 15 feet of depth with a nearly empty tank (500 psi) and

2. has ballast that can be ditched to allow the diver to swim up to the surface from depth with a full tank (or tanks) and with no buoyancy assist (no air in BCD, wings, or drysuit).

Ballast is usually in the form of lead weight, e.g., a weight belt, but can be something else, such a can light. Not all the ballast has to be ditchable, only a sufficient amount to allow the diver to swim to the surface with a full gas supply and no buoyancy assist.

The depth at which swimming to the surface with a full gas supply and no buoyancy assist is tested is typically something like 90 feet (at which depth any buoyancy assist from neoprene is minimal).

To have a balanced rig, therefore, the diver has to pass both tests: One with a full tank (at depth) and one with a nearly empty tank at 15 feet.

 

[lowviz]

And I would just like to add to Ricky B's post that once you have achieved a perfectly balanced rig you may find that you also have a horridly out of trim rig. Buoyancy and trim are very loosely connected variables with respect to gear. By this I mean that adjusting one variable (buoyancy/trim) does not necessarily have any given effect on the other.

Here is where properly restricting/redirecting the expansion of a wing speaks to trim alone. Ten pounds of lift is ten pounds of lift. End of the story for buoyancy. However, you can adjust where that ten pounds of lift appears to be acting by directing your wing's expansion.

 

[redacted]

A couple of reasons.

Firstly, you would ideally only manipulate one source of buoyancy to get yourselves both safely to the surface in a rescue situation. The less number of air pockets to manage a reasonable ascent the easier it becomes. Two divers with wings, and drysuits present 4 sources of air expansion areas to keep track of. In an emergency, that's a lot to keep on top of with everything going on. Using one wing/BC and keeping a slow ascent rate with drysuits venting properly is easier than being launched to the surface trying to vent 4 OPV at the same time.

Once your on the surface, use any and all sources of buoyancy to keep you afloat.


Secondly, you always plan for worst case scenarios. In this scenario that's when you are your heaviest, at the start of the dive with lots of heavy gas in your tanks.

A balanced rig is with minimal gas in your tanks (for at the end of your dive), not tanks with 10-20lbs negative worth of gas. Make that two divers and your already looking at 20-40 lbs of extra weight you won't have at the end if a dive with close to empty tanks (assuming double tanks)

So with the OP having the wrong size and style of wing with their current tanks, they could have troubles venting all gas from the wing, let alone someone from their team trying to assist them to the surface, trying to vent their oversized wing. Now they want to add material to make it 'not as big'. This can cause extra pockets for gas to be trapped, further making it harder to get trapped gas out.

Or in the case of the OP rescuing another diver, now with their bungied 50lb wing, maybe they have 30lbs of lift available, with 40lbs of gas and maybe that diver has an extra 10lbs of non ditch able lead for whatever reason (likes to keep a drysuit lofty, different undergarments, no recent weight check with configuration, new unknown gear, etc) I'd rather have the 50lb wing with proper tanks to help my buddy in an emergency. Heck, you'd probably never have to buy the first round after a dive with them again!

It's not just the safety of the OP 'not diving deep, or wreck penetrations', but their buddy/team while diving the wrong system altogether.

Under water is underwater, no matter how shallow and hard ceiling or not.


BRad

"Easier venting" is a reason for adequate lift; not extra lift. Except for the idea of turning your wing into a life raft or compensating for a buddy who is over weighted it sounds like you are making a case for avoiding oversized wings (excessive lift).

 

[mikkel-kj]

Yes right now I have got plenty of lift in my wing
a little less wouldn't be affect anything

 

[bradells]

"Easier venting" is a reason for adequate lift; not extra lift. Except for the idea of turning your wing into a life raft or compensating for a buddy who is over weighted it sounds like you are making a case for avoiding oversized wings (excessive lift).

I'm only advocating properly proportioned wings for the tanks in use.

A doubles wing designed for double 8" tanks on double 7.25" tanks or smaller is what I'm referring to in earlier posts (to which it seems the OP has done).

The OP knowingly purchased/gifted themselves the wrong sized wing for their tanks (regardless of lift capacity).

Either get the right wing for the tanks, or the right tanks for the wing.

End of story.

BRad

 

[Akimbo]

My favorite wing of all time from the 1980s had an elastic material bag around the bladder. The bag didn’t provide much physical protection but kept the bag really compact yet didn’t interfere with being able to orally inflate it. The image shows it deflated but it had about 40 Lbs of lift as I recall.

Maybe you can find some material like this and have someone sew a bag for you? It really doesn’t have to be much more than a pillow-case shape with some holes for cam bands or back plate bolts.

 

[ams511]

There is plenty of wings that have an elastic strap around it, so please do not come with all your "it's a death trap" I have heard them before just as many times as I have heard those who tell me that it isn't true.
and it will by the way also only be used on shallow dives, where I can easily swim to the surface incase of an emergency.

I am not going to tell you it is a death trap but I think you are fighting a losing battle. You are diving a rather small set of doubles and I an not sure that there is a ideal wing for them. A 50 lb lift wing is not super huge, the smallest double wings are usually around 40 lbs.

My advice is to get an old bike innertube and punch a hole in the center of it. Use the hole to attach to the lower bolt hole of the back plate. Attach the other ends of the inner tube with a triglide to your waist strap. You should be able to adjust the tension to restrict the airflow to the lower portion of the wing. I am not sure if this helps you out, it could hose up your trim.

Given the tank size I am assuming you are of smaller stature.