Major Industry Change re: Online Scuba Sales....

[ReefHound]

Who cares is air fills are priced at true cost, $10-15 maybe, but your gear is 20-50% less?
Tobin

Anyone who dives a lot locally.

How do you arrive at $10 - $15 for a "true cost"?

 

[mike_s]

My LDS charges $4.50/air-fill. But I can get them cheaper at a fire-equipment supplier in town. (I think they are $3/fill) But I still buy my fills at my LDS to support them and it's easier as they are open later and open on Saturday.

If air fills get up towards $15/fill, I imagine you'll see small groups of local dive buddies 'band together' and buy a compressor for their garage. (Regardless of where they are in the US.)

 

[SDAnderson]

Do you buy your groceries on line?

 

[cool_hardware52]

Anyone who dives a lot locally.

How do you arrive at $10 - $15 for a "true cost"?

It's just a guess. I'm in the process of building my own fill station, 22 cfm compressor, boosters, bank bottles, Mod Grade E air etc. (for my own use only)

You have to sell a lot of fills to amortize the investment. There are many costs, filters, air quality reports, maintainance of eq. Power costs money. Liability insurance.

A modest sized compressor to service your own needs an maybe a few buddies with just air can be done fairly cheaply, but that does not represent what a comercial operator expends.


Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

My LDS charges $4.50/air-fill. But I can get them cheaper at a fire-equipment supplier in town. (I think they are $3/fill) But I still buy my fills at my LDS to support them and it's easier as they are open later and open on Saturday.

If air fills get up towards $15/fill, I imagine you'll see small groups of local dive buddies 'band together' and buy a compressor for their garage. (Regardless of where they are in the US.)

Yes I expect you will. That's exactly whats happened elsewhere.

Tobin

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I'm not worried so much about the fills as I am the diver's training. Scuba training has been diluted to the point now that we have a diver in the accidents and incidents forum who got into trouble because she couldn't clear her mask. If these LDSs become training centers, will they then be under more pressure to turn out divers quickly, with minimal training? Or will they then be in a position to demand good, thorough training of new divers? This is the question that needs to be asked.

SeaRat

 

[lamont]

The way to fix this problem is to charge appropriately for gas fills and for training so that they are sustainable businesses on their own.

An LDS model where you lose money on training, lose money on fills, and have your margins squeezed to nothing on gear by leisurepro doesn't work. Those people are going to wind up going out of business.

And before someone complains about how this raises the cost for new people to start scubadiving -- no, it doesn't really. It moves the costs from equipment to training...

 

[cool_hardware52]

The way to fix this problem is to charge appropriately for gas fills and for training so that they are sustainable businesses on their own.

An LDS model where you lose money on training, lose money on fills, and have your margins squeezed to nothing on gear by leisurepro doesn't work. Those people are going to wind up going out of business.

And before someone complains about how this raises the cost for new people to start scubadiving -- no, it doesn't really. It moves the costs from equipment to training...

I agree.


Tobin

 

[scubadobadoo]

First, my posts were not meant as a statement that service or training is something that *should* be done outside the LDS, but as a response to Webmonkey's assertion that these are things that cannot be done over the internet. He later conceded they could be done, just not what he preferred.

I understood that and I agree with you.

The model I postulated of LP forging alliances with independent instructors was just an example of how it could be done. In that example, there was no expense or significant energy expended by them. They would simply be using their strong customer base to generate referrals to instructors who were only interested in teaching, not sales and marketing. Another model might be for them to hook up with Sports Chalet or Sports Authority in the way Divers Direct is doing with Gander Mountain. Don't think that just because an idea hasn't yet been tried that it isn't feasible. Unlike most LDS, online companies are typically open minded to new methods, willing to try new things and take more chances.

Their business model works now. They make money. Why complicate it? They won't. They have no interest in the scuba industry other than the fact that they happen to sell scuba gear. They don't need to hook up with anyone. BTW, they are owned and run by Hasidic Jews. That specific business community tends to stick to its own.

BTW, what makes you think LP has low overhead? They have a physical store in downtown NYC, one of the most expensive places to operate in the U.S.

Their overhead is small compared to the other LDS's here in NYC. They have a million customers and Pan Aqua and others have only hundreds or fewer. For example, you live in Texas and you know who LP is. While they do have a show room, the "showroom" is really more of an inconvenience to the sales crew. They could care less if anybody came in to look. It probably generates less than 1% of their annual sales. Actually they recently moved most of their gear to a warehouse in NJ and keep very little on hand. It's all about the internet. That said, I have spent 1000's in that crappy little showroom on the second floor that has little to zero advertising announcing its existance to NYC. They have always been nice to me but they aren't a service first LDS. The showroom is in NYC because many Hasidic Jews live in NYC and they also own the camera store downstairs that operates much in the same way. They probably allow people to come in because they figure 1% more in sales is better than 0% more in sales.

As for air fills, have you checked with your fire stations?

I live in NYC. I couldn't imagine taking my scuba tanks across the street to the fire station here in Queens and asking for a fill. They would look at me like I was an idiot. Then the fire alarm would go off for the 500th time that day and they would run me over, lol. Not to mention all of the Union issues. I wish I could do that and I think it's cool that you can!

 

[OkieDiver]

What happens when all the LDS in the US start selling gear online at the same prices as LP? I know the first reply is going to be "they never will", but what if. A couple of posters have already brought up the scenario where the LDS doesn't exist anymore so I was curious what the comments would be if all the shops became mini leisurepros.