Luxfer not honoring Nitrox fills in their tanks?

[wedivebc]

I thought that as well, however, he's even saying that he can't/won't be insured even if the tanks are O2 cleaned. As a matter of fact he's doing away with his rental nitrox alum tanks (using them for air fills only) and said he had to order 15 PST 100's so that he can still rent nitrox and be covered by his insurance.

I think we may be hearing more on this in the near future.

Let me know who it is, I will buy his AL tanks.

 

[Leadking]

I thought that as well, however, he's even saying that he can't/won't be insured even if the tanks are O2 cleaned. As a matter of fact he's doing away with his rental nitrox alum tanks (using them for air fills only) and said he had to order 15 PST 100's so that he can still rent nitrox and be covered by his insurance.

I think we may be hearing more on this in the near future.

I have confirmed that current Luxfer with GREEN warning label can be used with upto 100% oxygen providing all other critera are met.

I have sold tens of thousands of Luxfer cylinders and hope you will take my word on this issue.

This may be an issue with his insurance company and have nothing to do with Luxfer cylinders.

 

[RonFrank]

Hello All,

I went to a customer appreciation dive day with my LDS on Saturday and we showed up with Luxfer AL80's with Nitrox bands on them. When we got there, someone said wow what a waste, since you can't get those brand new tanks filled with Nitrox anymore. Confused, I asked the owner of the shop about it and he said, "there was an occurence somewhere, not sure what, but Luxfer was sued over a problem with a nitrox fill in one of their tanks. Now, they are claiming that they won't stand behind their product for use with EANx, so local dive shops won't be able to fill them anymore (with EANx) due to insurance regulations and the risk of liability.

Anybody else here heard this or know any more about it?????

Thanks,

To me. LeadKing posted Luxfer's policies which do not say the tanks are not O2 EANx compatable, but indicates that the valve must be maintained as O2 cleaned. This does not appear to be a Luxfer issue, but maybe an issue with the DiveOp insurance?

So, do you have other options for getting your tanks filled? So much for *customer appreciation* day. Sounds more like Customer confusion with the DiveOp blaming Luxfer for an issue that may have nothing to do with that manufacture.

 

[spectrum]

While this wrinkle does not bode well for the tank owner visiting this shop looking for an EAN fill. It would not break my heart to find that I cannot rent an AL-80 cylinder for my nitrox dive but will have to settle for an E7-100.

If he has this issue and is renting into an 80 CF market I wonder why he poped the extra $$ for the 100CF cylinders. The E7-80s are much more affordable, he could have bought about 25 of those by the prices I'm seeing.

Pete

 

[RonFrank]

While this wrinkle does not bode well for the tank owner visiting this shop looking for an EAN fill. It would not break my heart to find that I cannot rent an AL-80 cylinder for my nitrox dive but will have to settle for an E7-100.

If he has this issue and is renting into an 80 CF market I wonder why he poped the extra $$ for the 100CF cylinders. The E7-80s are much more affordable, he could have bought about 25 of those by the prices I'm seeing.

Pete

If the E7-100's rent for $20 each while the standard Al-80 rents for $12 with Nitrox. I'm guessing that is going to be the case as the times when I did get the High Pressure 100's with Nitrox, they were between $5-10 more per tank per day vs. the 80's.

I find this entire LDS behavior very strange... Our LDS is doing Partial blend fills on Luxar tanks all the time. They WILL change you a vis for a new tank (even if it has a VIS on it... just wrong), and they many even make you O2 Clean a new tank before they will fill it (also wrong with a new tank with Nitrox sticker).. but it LEAST they will fill them once they are satisfied they have charged you a sufficient amount of money as a spanking for basically not paying them $200 for a new tank in the first place, and going online.

This is a major reason I was glad to run across O2 clean used Nitrox tanks that are labeled and full. The LDS won't question the Nitrox tank when partially filled, and if it looks beat up as long as it's properly labeled, and in Hydro.

 

[nauidiver2004]

I have two Luxfer AL80's. One with the red sticker that is used for air, one with the green sticker for EANx. The green sticker indicates the cylinder was specifically prepared for Oxygen service at the factory. My LDS charged an extra $20 for the nitrox band, the O2 service vis sticker, and cleaning of the valve. I get PP fills of EANx in this cylinder all the time and no one has indicated any hint of a problem.

Ken

 

[CaptainNemo]

Hello All,

I went to a customer appreciation dive day with my LDS on Saturday and we showed up with Luxfer AL80's with Nitrox bands on them. When we got there, someone said wow what a waste, since you can't get those brand new tanks filled with Nitrox anymore. Confused, I asked the owner of the shop about it and he said, "there was an occurence somewhere, not sure what, but Luxfer was sued over a problem with a nitrox fill in one of their tanks. Now, they are claiming that they won't stand behind their product for use with EANx, so local dive shops won't be able to fill them anymore (with EANx) due to insurance regulations and the risk of liability.

Anybody else here heard this or know any more about it?????

Thanks,

Boycott LUXFER.. They don't stand behind any of their tanks. They use a bad alloy but don't want to make it good. They did give a credit after sending the old tank back. By the time you got thur with shipping, you would be better off buying a new tank outright. I will never own or buy another LUXFER product. How can I stand behind something they wont?

 

[akscubainst]

Boycott LUXFER.. They don't stand behind any of their tanks. They use a bad alloy but don't want to make it good. They did give a credit after sending the old tank back. By the time you got thur with shipping, you would be better off buying a new tank outright. I will never own or buy another LUXFER product. How can I stand behind something they wont?

Ugh WHATEVER!!

Give me a break! They gave you a $50 credit on an already 10-20 year old tank that would have sold for $5.00 at a garage sale.

The whole 6351 alloy thing is way overdone. Yes, they are susceptable to SLC but all that means is you have to be more diligent in the visual inspections and in making sure they are filled properly and treated right.

No doubt, there are some of shops who used this excuse to stop filling these tanks and to sell more tanks but these are still usable cylinders.

To use your rational then I guess I should boycott just about every corporation in the world cause at one time or another they've pretty much all put out a defective product and not done anything about it. Darn, Maybe I should boycott Ford, my 1976 F250 blew an engine in 1986.

As far as not putting O2 in a new tank... Luxfer is doing a little CYA that's all it is. By saying that anything above 23% requires special handling the are covered. My Truck will exceed the speed limit but I'm sure somewhere in the manual GMC says not to. (had to buy a GMC after that little Ford incident 20 years ago ya know.....)

Dave

 

[Sideband]

From http://www.andihq.com/pages/news.html

Industry Announcement

On July 15, 2004 Luxfer Cylinders announced a clarification of their long-held position that cylinders for use with any Oxygen percentage above 23.5% Oxygen must be cleaned and dedicated to contaminant free-gas. While in recent years, Luxfer’s “public statements” on this issue have been twisted to meet various parties needs, Luxfer has never wavered from this belief which they clearly state on their web-site as consistent with ANDI’s. As a matter of fact, the ONLY servicing program that Luxfer mentions is ANDI’s!

In their policy statement (which can be viewed at):
http://www.luxfercylinders.com/support/faq/aluminumoxygen.shtml

Luxfer Cylinders once and for all denounces the “40%
rule” as myth:


While Luxfer Cylinders can certainly be considered an authority on issues surrounding Oxygen equipment issues, Luxfer consulted heavily with ANDI for their specific experience within the SCUBA industry and because of ANDI’s reputation as having the only consistent message compatible with their’s and other industry experts that Luxfer does business with. As a matter of fact, the only Oxygen-service training program that Luxfer mentions on their site is that of ANDI’s!

Beginning in January, 2005 Luxfer will change their out-of-the-box-policy such that “unless otherwise requested, new cylinders will be shipped suitable for AIR ONLY. New cylinders, Oxygen compatible (for use above 23.5% contact), will be available but this must be requested at time of order.” Luxfer further stipulates that by utilizing cleaning & dedication procedures consistent with those taught by ANDI that even a Luxfer-AIR cylinder can be rendered for use with Oxygen mixtures above 23.5% provided proper cleaning and dedication occurs.

 

[pescador775]

Anybody read the Luxfer manifesto? They claim that the track record with <40% O2 usage in the dive community is not sufficient for safety analysis. They have to go with CGA's 23% because Luxfer is member of CGA. Blah, blah. They claim that we are operating on the edge of disaster which could happen at any moment. They say that a trace of oil could blow up at O2 levels above 23%. They fail to mention compressor manufacturers (Europeans who are not so tort jumpy) who support pumping NITROX using oil lubricated compressors. Cripes, NUVAIR's entire business rests on the assumption that pumping NITROX is safe.

The average American, who considers pumping volatile gasoline into a car to be a reasonable risk, should have no problem with pumping NITROX into a factory cleaned SCUBA tank, no matter what freaking label is put on the tank.

Given a large enough sample population anything can happen and that is the principle that all these outfits, the SCUBA "authorities", and SCUBA industry, like Luxfer, lean on. If there has ever been an incident or accident anywhere, at any time, which might support their position (which is actually based on insurance or litigation avoidance), they will find it and issue a white paper containing little more than blather insulting to one's intelligence. Everything from "safety stops" to NITROX scares, if there is a conceivable restriction, they will find it, if not, they will invent one.

Screw Luxfer, ANDI, and the whole lot!