Low Visibilty, Fast Current, Large Debris, Dangerous diving (need advice)

[Dr. Lecter]

I think beyond his skills is a relative term; overall, it's beyond his skills for sure, but IMO it's not so far outside the envelope that he's a complete and total idiot to dive it to learn how to dive it. I'd reserve that for an overhead environment. And given the viz, current, and obstacles, I can see the argument that a buddy wouldn't be an asset.

But he's got to put more thought into his gear or he's adding a "very much" to his already "more likely to die" approach to gaining diving experience.

 

[farsidefan1]

I'm totally with Wookie on this. Key phrase being "You don't know what you don't know". My only suggestion is do a lot of easier dives then add degrees of difficulty. Over time. But hey, enjoy what you enjoy. Your an adult and you have certification saying you can do it.

 

[Ironlock]

Thanks for the awesome replies. Great advice, I appreciate it. I will admit to a very high risk tolerance(given high rewards), which has served me well throughout life, both in my career as well as my recreation, and I can also see how others who are risk averse can see my diving as insanity. Both are equally correct accordingly.

This dive is common around here with most of the locals, and the real shocker is that (at least in this circle) this type of diving is not thought of as particularly dangerous,. Before actually trying it, I didn't get a warning from any of numerous friends and relatives that dive, nor was I informed of just how dangerous it is. I think I was aware of the risks, I guess as well as one could given a particular set of skills and experience( I have been swimming in this river for 35 years), so I did take it slow to start (basically doing nothing but devoting all attention to structure and mental discipline).

I will say that, as some of you guessed was inevitable, I have been tested at high levels while doing these dives, I have been forced to deal with stressful situations that would induce panic with many, I have been hung up several times, forced to remain calm and solve the problem by (so far) calmly walking myself back to the point of anchorage to free up. One of the best lessons I learned was how easy one can lose focus if distracted. I was attempting to take time out on the bottom with my knee leveraged against a rock in order to re-secure my snorkel which I had inadvertently ripped off the mask while adjusting it. While doing this, a nice walleye stopped to say hello and because of a lack of mental discipline/focus, I immediately switched from gear adjuster to walleye staulker and sub-consciously dropped the snorkel when grabbing the speargun, only to realize immediately afterward. Stupid? Maybe. Valuable lesson...most certainly. I understand those who will disagree, but I choose to look at those moments as valuable blessings and teachable moments.

I might agree that because of my lack of experience, it was too soon to subject myself to those tests, and looking back, had I truly known or been informed of the degree of difficulty, I don't think I would have tackled it so soon. So please excuse me for that. Yet, what is done is done.

I also feel blessed to have found this wonderful forum. Dr. Lecter, thanks for the great reply, and thanks also to you others who are clearly fighting the need to attack me as the embodiment of idiocy. I am listening and I think most of what Dr. Lecter said is right on, I need to clean up the gear and build the needed redundancy. I also agree regarding the flag. It's purpose is to be a signal to boaters to stay away, yet for that benefit one is forced to deal with numerous additional risks, and the risks outweigh it's benefit. I do have one of those blow up and release type bobbers that would work great for ascent. I need to think on it, but given the hang up risks associated with the rope and flag, I think you are right about ditching it. I think the smartest thing to do for now is to only dive that stretch out of a boat, rather than solo from shore. That way the legal risk would be negated by the addition of the boat flag.

Thanks again.
PS. Speaking of redundancy....I am here in order to learn 'what I don't know'. Also, Wookie, I'm more of a forgiveness rather than permission guy. Thanks for the advice though.

 

[raftingtigger]

As a "professional diver", a whitewater rafting guide (head guide), Trained Swiftwater Rescue specialist, a former paramedic, and a solo diver I would NEVER do what you describe solo. Doing it with a buddy isn't a whole lot safer either.

The big problem is with the current AND the entanglement hazards together. In whitewater rafting these are referred to as "strainers" and are the most deadly item on a river except for low head dams - which are affectionately referred to as "drowning machines".

Until you have been deliberately placed on a log (which can be lifted out of the water) in current you have no concept of how hard it is to get off. The bigger you are the harder it is - this is a case where the petite lady can get free and the big strong lineman cannot. It does not take much flow to trap you.

Loose line is another big no-no in moving water. All the lanyards you have to retain your gear are traps to entangle you. When I do a line assisted rescue I have a quick release for my lowering (not "safety") line.

I also use crotch straps with my life jacket. There are numerous cases where the life jacket is stripped from the entangled swimmer. Unless your gear is on as tight as a properly fitting life jacket (if you can breathe it is too loose without crotch straps) your gear might get stripped from you.

In the poor viz you can't see what is coming fast enough to avoid it. Additionally, even if you are diving with a buddy - by the time your buddy sees you have a problem the current has moved them past you. They have to get back to you and not get entangled themselves while helping you get free.

How can you reduce the risks? Several ways. First get some training in swiftwater rescue. You will have a better idea of the real risks you are taking. Second, choose a less cluttered river with less entanglement hazards AND/or dive the site when the flow is lower. A river that is hazardous at one flow rate can be safely diveable at a lower level. KNOW YOUR RIVER. Third, get more diving experience in more benign conditions THEN get solo dive training (class, mentor, or if either isn't available then self-study).

There are so many ways you are showing that you "don't know what you don't know". Until you have an idea of the real risks you can't moderate them.

 

[Ironlock]

Thanks raftingtigger. Lets go rafting. I'm in.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

in order to re-secure my snorkel which I had inadvertently ripped off the mask while adjusting it.

Did you also have to adjust your splitfins and double check your SpareAir?

I need to clean up the gear and build the needed redundancy.​

​

You also need to ask yourself why you thought it was OK to hop in in the first place with no redundancy for what you have to have to stay alive, and a bunch of crap you don't need/will help you die. When you give yourself an honest answer to that question, you should then examine whether the same problem still exists in your thinking.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

This dive is common around here with most of the locals, and the real shocker is that (at least in this circle) this type of diving is not thought of as particularly dangerous,. Before actually trying it, I didn't get a warning from any of numerous friends and relatives that dive, nor was I informed of just how dangerous it is. I think I was aware of the risks, I guess as well as one could given a particular set of skills and experience( I have been swimming in this river for 35 years), so I did take it slow to start (basically doing nothing but devoting all attention to structure and mental discipline).

I will say that, as some of you guessed was inevitable, I have been tested at high levels while doing these dives, I have been forced to deal with stressful situations that would induce panic with many, I have been hung up several times, forced to remain calm and solve the problem by (so far) calmly walking myself back to the point of anchorage to free up. One of the best lessons I learned was how easy one can lose focus if distracted. I was attempting to take time out on the bottom with my knee leveraged against a rock in order to re-secure my snorkel which I had inadvertently ripped off the mask while adjusting it.

I don't know the site. The fact that no experienced divers have warned you away might mean that in their estimation this isn't a particularly dangerous dive. With your lesser experience you are seeing perils around every corner. What I can say is that getting caught up on a snag worries me more than almost any other potential hazard. Yes; I've been caught up while solo, yes I've freed myself, but the randomness of each snag being different and maybe difficult to reach and maybe on uncuttable cable. That scares me still today.

You sound like you hopped in to give it a go and got away with it. Dive planning is where you are lacking. Have you thought through the dive, what could go wrong and whether you have the right skills and equipment for the job. My assessment is that you haven't. Maybe you lose the snorkel and buy another knife. That actually doesn't fix your planing and contingency planning.

Instead I fear that you are happy go lucky about diving. You are pushing the bounds beyond your skill set, planning ability and equipment configuration. You have been lucky on your dives so far. Just cause one might be lucky enough to roll double six on a pair of dice three times in a row doesn't make them skilled, just lucky. Odds are that you will keep getting lucky. Then again maybe you won't.

 

[Ironlock]

Just wanted to update you helpful people on a few adjustments I've made since finding you all. First, my dive planning, and mental frame have drastically changed, thank you for the help in realizing some of the things I now know that I didn't know, I am now fully accepting the fact that I have been really freaking lucky, and I might even have been mildly retarded taking some of the risks I have solo-diving. Today I went out in the boat (rather than from shore), I brought my wife along in the boat where she would stay (I'm still not sure how much this would help, other than for boat navigation as well as dialing for someone in an emergency. I had previously added 2 additional knives, as well as an additional set of cutting shears. I had adjusted my bottom time downward to reflect my new upward appreciation for the importance of reserve air. I also went to the dive shop to see what they had in terms of redundant air and regs, they had zip.

So today we set out, once we arrived on the spot, I realized that the flow level was pretty much maxed out and the river was as high as it's been all year long. The visiability looked poor as a result also. At that point I decided to abort the dive and we instead used the time to give my wife some boating lessons. I just want you guys and girls who have taken time out in the interest of helping a fellow diver, to feel some satisfaction in knowing that although I may not be doing what you my think I should be doing, at least I am moving your way and you have made me a safer diver. Thanks.

Now root for NYY, BOS, and TEX to all win by exactly one run (I'd take 1 of 3) so I can afford all the additional gear and the beers I owe you all.

 

[DaleC]

I would like to discuss a few points in a general sense (as the individual will do what they will anyways and I feel no need to pick at them).

... Today I went out in the boat (rather than from shore), I brought my wife along in the boat where she would stay (I'm still not sure how much this would help, other than for boat navigation as well as dialing for someone in an emergency. I had previously added 2 additional knives, as well as an additional set of cutting shears. I had adjusted my bottom time downward to reflect my new upward appreciation for the importance of reserve air. I also went to the dive shop to see what they had in terms of redundant air and regs, they had zip.

So today we set out, once we arrived on the spot, I realized that the flow level was pretty much maxed out and the river was as high as it's been all year long. The visiability looked poor as a result also. At that point I decided to abort the dive and we instead used the time to give my wife some boating lessons. I just want you guys and girls who have taken time out in the interest of helping a fellow diver, to feel some satisfaction in knowing that although I may not be doing what you my think I should be doing, at least I am moving your way and you have made me a safer diver. Thanks...

If leaving someone on a boat, make sure they know how to operate it. It can be pretty stressful to sit for an hour wondering if your loved one is ok, while at the same time feeling anxious about being alone. Also, every solo diver should enter the water believing no rescue is forthcoming. The truth is, the phone would be used to initiate your body recovery. Have a watcher who is mentally prepared for that.

Two cutting tools are enough, adding more is an increase in entanglement hazards. Same with a redundant air source in this situation. Another entanglement hazard. The "pony" is meant to allow one to surface when experiencing a sudden loss of gas. You should be able to do that from 15-30ft without one. It is not meant to extend BT or be used as a reserve when entangled. You should carry that as part of your back gas.

Each solo situation requires it's own approach. Shallow, fast water with entanglement hazards, overhead traffic and task loading (spearfishing) is probably more dangerous than one thinks. Adding a bunch of gear does not address the issue(s).

 

[Subcooled]

Note that you could get entangled in plastic rope, telephone cable, barbed wire, or in a fallen tree on the bottom. Not all of these are easy to cut with a knife.

There is also the risk of getting pinned against a solid object or a grille (or a small hole in a wall) by heavy current.

Does your contingency plan include a rope tender, rope signals, extra cylinders delivered if necessary, and an emergency plan to call for professional rescuers if you would get stuck?