Lost Diver at Mill Pond Rescued

[Kevin Carlisle]

Did these guys even have a plan? "Let's see where this goes" might be an acceptable plan for people who dive these caves week in and week out ... but for the occasional cave tourist it's generally not a good idea.

Curious how familiar these guys were with the layout of where they were heading before they attempted this dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

In case you missed it, I was told they had a plan to dive the Goodman circuit or Horseshoe as its called. They missed it and did a wrong tunnell. As I told Lynne, somewhere, someone should have stopped and said NO. Some did but after it was too late. Thinking has to be better than this to be in a cave.

 

[BabyDuck]

exactly. that's what i meant by the 'stop digging' comment earlier. if you're confused or uncomfortable or even simply not feeling that dive at that time, *leave* in a safe but expedient manner. there's just no call to keep on until your gas is gone.

 

[Jax]

Why does this sound like "they got lost but didn't want to admit it" ?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Why does this sound like "they got lost but didn't want to admit it" ?

They admitted they went in the wrong place, that's how I know that. The rest is very evident.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

You are going to fix line in zero viz? I bet you do lol.

Absolutely. It's common effing sense. I'm not going to go wandering around off the line. I'm going to start with what I have and tie into it. If I am on the wrong end of the line (i.e. the end on the cave side), I'm going to secure it and tie into it, then I'm going to look for the exit side of the line. When I find that exit side, I'm going to tie into it and cut my reel loose. It's not neat or permanent but it's fixed and useable until the viz clears - and if anyone is in the cave past me they now also have continuous line. If I am already on the exit side of the break, it's zero viz, and no one is ahead of me, then leaving is just common sense. If someone is ahead of me and relying on the line, then I'd certainly consider proceeding with a repair with due consideration given to cave considerations and gas available.

You'd do something different?

---------- Post Merged at 08:54 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:48 AM ----------

Cave divers ... at least, relatively inexperienced or occasional cave divers ... should be capable of reading a map and making a plan that includes having some information about where they're going before going in there ... or they should not be cave diving. If they are relatively inexperienced cave divers, they should be encouraged to not just go in there to see if it's too much. That's exactly what this guy did, and once he realized it was too much he was already in over his head.

The problem with that approach is that it gives some folks the idea that anybody with a full cave certification is capable of doing exploration dives. I think that's what motivates the Ben McDaniels types out there, and creates incidents that require folks like Edd to have to rush into a cave in the hope that they can find the fool in time.

A card doesn't determine your limits ... experience and judgment do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I don't think the cave tourist versus local zip code diver thing is the issue. If someone has been there before and can show you the way, it's just prudent to take advantage of that resource. We will whenever possible arrange to dive with someone who'e been somewhere before to familiarize ourself with a particular cave our passage.

In the absence of that, we at least consult available maps and talk to divers who are familiar with the planned route.

And in the absence of that, we use what amounts to a very conservative progressive penetration approach to new (or new to us) cave so that we're familiar not only with getting in, but getting out - something that's even more important in side mount where the time it takes going through a restriction one way can be longer than going the other way.

 

[PfcAJ]

Easier said than done. I've had to find and repair a line once in low/intermittent zero vis, and it was the 2nd scariest thing I've ever experienced in cave diving. I don't ever want to have to do that again. Its MUCH harder to do than it is to type it. Gotta keep it together, and I could see how someone who is already in way over their head might have a real bad time with that. There's a video floating around of some guys attempting a 'zero vis' line repair in open water. Charlie-foxtrottery ensues.

I imagine that if you don't really know the cave (which I did, luckily) that a 'find and repair the line' type situation could go downhill in a hurry. A friend of mine once said "the line is your life", and I think there is a lot of truth to that.

 

[LiteHedded]

Easier said than done. I've had to find and repair a line once in low/intermittent zero vis, and it was the 2nd scariest thing I've ever experienced in cave diving. I don't ever want to have to do that again. Its MUCH harder to do than it is to type it. Gotta keep it together, and I could see how someone who is already in way over their head might have a real bad time with that. There's a video floating around of some guys attempting a 'zero vis' line repair in open water. Charlie-foxtrottery ensues.

I imagine that if you don't really know the cave (which I did, luckily) that a 'find and repair the line' type situation could go downhill in a hurry. A friend of mine once said "the line is your life", and I think there is a lot of truth to that.

crybaby. everything worked out fine

 

[PfcAJ]

Your fault!

 

[ucfdiver]

Absolutely. It's common effing sense. I'm not going to go wandering around off the line. I'm going to start with what I have and tie into it. If I am on the wrong end of the line (i.e. the end on the cave side), I'm going to secure it and tie into it, then I'm going to look for the exit side of the line. When I find that exit side, I'm going to tie into it and cut my reel loose. It's not neat or permanent but it's fixed and useable until the viz clears - and if anyone is in the cave past me they now also have continuous line. If I am already on the exit side of the break, it's zero viz, and no one is ahead of me, then leaving is just common sense. If someone is ahead of me and relying on the line, then I'd certainly consider proceeding with a repair with due consideration given to cave considerations and gas available.

You'd do something different?

Have you ever attempted this?

About 2 years ago I was diving a river cave, went through a sm passage with a bottle ahead of me (small). Once I passed the restriction, my reg started free flowing, so I quickly shut it down, losing my balance in the process since the rear of the tank was not yet clipped off. I was over clay, which started zero'ing the visibility so I lurched for the line, snapping it. I sat there, waiting for the vis to clear, but there just wasn't enough flow, and when I felt along the bottom it just made it worse. At this point, I still had the line leading further into the cave in my hand, so I tied my spool into it so at least that wouldn't slip. At that point I had realized that the line was likely somewhere in the silt, on the bottom, where my only chances of finding it would mean making vis even worse. Luckily my buddy was behind me, and kept his light pointed my way for nearly 5 minutes (seemed longer, but the computer download said otherwise) and I finally saw the glow once I thought to cover my light and let my eyes adjust.

If you think you're finding a broke line in real life in something that isn't large cave with decent viz, you're likely wrong. Prevention, luck, and hoping your buddy is on the other side of the break are the only ways of dealing with it.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Much easier said than done. A.J and James are right. Once this happens you need luck and patience. Way easy to type stuff and sound like a rock star cave diver. Doesn't work so well in the real world.