Lost another tank :(

[flots am]

If your employees are so stupid, I don't think they should be anywhere around a fill station.
Catalina Cylinder has never made a tank out of 6351T6. All Catalina's are 6061T6

I don't own a dive shop, but I've owned other businesses, and can tell you that when management isn't watching, employees get sloppy. A blanket rule that's easy to remember and always works is a lot safer than something that only works if they do it right, and might kill people if they don't.

Unhappy? find a shop that will fill your tank or buy a compressor.

Nobody is required to fill anything.

flots.

 

[sunfishh]

One thing to keep in mind a LDS is a lot more interested in selling you a new tank than filling an old one. I am sure this also contributes to the no pre 90's rule.

 

[=C=]

DUH

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

If you are in the keys, I have shops that will fill 6351T6

I will try to educate the diving industry one more time, but I don’t have much faith it will work/help

Per PSI data:
They know of 23, 6351T6 tanks that have turned into a hand grenade
Two have happen after the VE
In the same time period of these 23 ruptures, 57 steels have ruptured, but you all think that your steels are safe. I don’t get you guys,
This bad 6351T6 thing all started withHM220D, the dive community read part of that notice and came to the finding that because DOT outlawed poison gas in 6351T6, that this meant that compressed air was also included, it is not. Read 49CFR 180.209m

#1 All Tanks fail, The question is when will it fail. That is why we are working so hard to get all tanks tested, that is why we tell you not to overfill, When you do something outside of the prescribed use of that tank. You are playing Russian roulette, you do not know if/when that tank will blow. I watch this everyday, I can see the expansion happening right before my eyes. If the tank is at yield point I can see that and almost every time, I have been able to shut down before rupture, except two times. The test equipment is made to handle a rupture. The ones I cannot see and stop are when the valve threads come out of the tank at pressure. Every time that happens it cost me $21.95 for a new burst disk in the test jacket and I put 10-20 gallons of water on the floor in 1.5 seconds.
Why do these cowboys in the dive industry think that they are smarter then the scientist, engineers and the DOT. I don’t understand.

I have a shop in Marathon that will not fill a steel tank. Do you know why? It’s real hard to argue with them when someone got blown through the wall by a steel tank rupture. But you all think your steel tank is safe but these 6351T6 are not safe, Try telling them that a steel tank is safe to fill. I've seen it, Its not pretty.

6351T6 tanks are as safe as any tanks is

Do your customers and your staff a service and purchase a NFPA approved blast containment filling station, this way you can safely charge any cylinder. I have one in my garage. Even post 1990 AL cylinder can rupture.
ZDD

 

[fire_diver]

We have one for our SCBA cylinders at the fire station (I think it's mandatory now). I watched the instructional video when we got it in, and they have intentional overfilled, catastrophic failures in it. It's impressive to say the least.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

We have one for our SCBA cylinders at the fire station (I think it's mandatory now). I watched the instructional video when we got it in, and they have intentional overfilled, catastrophic failures in it. It's impressive to say the least.

I think that for the safety of the general puplic and employees they should be mandatory in scuba shops . Most scuba shops do their filling in the show room exposing customers to the risk of an explosion.
Unfortunatly in Canada they are not a manatory yet even in the fire stations.
ZDD

 

[duckbill]

I think that for the safety of the general puplic and employees they should be mandatory in scuba shops .

Really? For five to six thousand dollars? Is it reasonable to expect such a cost to be passed along to the customers, provided a shop can afford to foot the initial expense to begin with? How much would you realistically be willing to pay for a fill? Fire stations can afford to spend big bucks since they get "free" money from us. And, I'd wager since fire stations are probably the biggest customer for these devices the prices are inflated accordingly for the same reason. Do independent, privately owned dive shops get a price break?


Expense versus risk always has to be weighed rationally. I'd bet if you conducted a study on the rate of incidents involving injury or death you would find it to be quite low or there would already be a mandate for such containment. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Really? For five to six thousand dollars? Is it reasonable to expect such a cost to be passed along to the customers, provided a shop can afford to foot the initial expense to begin with? How much would you realistically be willing to pay for a fill? Fire stations can afford to spend big bucks since they get "free" money from us. And, I'd wager since fire stations are probably the biggest customer for these devices the prices are inflated accordingly for the same reason. Do independent, privately owned dive shops get a price break?


Expense versus risk always has to be weighed rationally. I'd bet if you conducted a study on the rate of incidents involving injury or death you would find it to be quite low or there would already be a mandate for such containment. Be careful what you wish for.

Just ask any one who has lost an employee or a freind or their shop if 6 grand is too much. I bet they wish they would have purchesed one prior to the explosion. If happens only once every 5 years then that's enouph.
Then department of labor over the years has impossed many labor safety requirements and the employers have to comply regardless of the cost because people die on the job. This would only make the sport safer.
You know the potential dangers of a tank explosion, similar to a gernade. Emagine walking into any store and seeing someone messing around with a live gernade. I don't care if the pin is in it, I don't want to be around it.
If there is away to prevent deaths in our sport don't you think we should take advantage of it? Even if it does cost $6K.
Just my opinion.
ZDD

 

[duckbill]

If happens only once every 5 years then that's enouph.

Once every five years out of all the dive shops in North America? No, I don't think that would be reason enough to mandate that expense for a dive shop.

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Once every five years out of all the dive shops in North America? No, I don't think that would be reason enough to mandate that expense for a dive shop.

Well see there you go, here is were we differ in opinions. I think one preventable death every 5 years is more then enough to justify 6K.
Now lets do some math, (I hate math by the way) a busy shop should be doing 200 fills a week if the cost of a fill went up by a buck the unit would be paided for in 30 weeks, less then a year.
The average diver does around 10-20 dives a year, not that much for the average diver to cough up every year.
ZDD