Looking for opinions on drysuits

[buddhasummer]

I found no co-relation between price and quality. None! If it fit well it would be a comfortable experience regardless of price range or brand. If it did not fit well it could be the Rolls Royce of drysuits and I would be miserable! The marketing slogan that "you get what you pay for" just does not seem to apply to drysuits. Manufacturers and dive shops realize this and usually tell you "Drysuit is a very subjective and personal preference." I agree but why were the same people saying "You get what you pay for?" Both slogans cant be true.

You must be pretty blind to say that there are no differences between shell suits. Put a SANTI, Hollis, Bare Nexgen and USIA side by side and pole 10 people and 10 out of 10 will pick the SANTI. That I know as fact as we see it all the time at trade shows (Beneath the Sea is in our backyard). Now of those 10 people that see the quality is better maybe 5 or 6 out of 10 will say they have the budget for it. Obviously everyone has a different price point that they are at, but that is different then saying that there is no difference in quality. Price is price but quality is the materials being used, features, functionality, options, construction etc....

This is no different then noticing that a BMW is better quality then a Chrysler. Some will be able to buy the BMW and others want to but unfortunately will have to settle on the Chrysler. This is everyday life! Don't hate the people that want the BMW!

No, feel sorry for those that have to settle on the Chrysler.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I found no co-relation between price and quality. None! If it fit well it would be a comfortable experience regardless of price range or brand. If it did not fit well it could be the Rolls Royce of drysuits and I would be miserable! The marketing slogan that "you get what you pay for" just does not seem to apply to drysuits. Manufacturers and dive shops realize this and usually tell you "Drysuit is a very subjective and personal preference." I agree but why were the same people saying "You get what you pay for?" Both slogans cant be true.

You must be pretty blind to say that there are no differences between shell suits. Put a SANTI, Hollis, Bare Nexgen and USIA side by side and pole 10 people and 10 out of 10 will pick the SANTI. That I know as fact as we see it all the time at trade shows (Beneath the Sea is in our backyard). Now of those 10 people that see the quality is better maybe 5 or 6 out of 10 will say they have the budget for it. Obviously everyone has a different price point that they are at, but that is different then saying that there is no difference in quality. Price is price but quality is the materials being used, features, functionality, options, construction etc....

This is no different then noticing that a BMW is better quality then a Chrysler. Some will be able to buy the BMW and others want to but unfortunately will have to settle on the Chrysler. This is everyday life! Don't hate the people that want the BMW!

I may be pretty blind or you being a retailer may have financial reasons for promoting high end suits.

After trying a load of suits I can honestly say that there was nothing that would cause me to develop a preference for one shell suit over the other. There were fit issues so certain suits would fit certain body types better.

Noticeable difference came when I dove neoprene suits. I had a strong preference for neoprene over shells and after these pool tests I sold my USIA on this website for a custom neoprene suit. Keep in mind that one of the things that makes Santi so great is that the fabric has a certain "stretch" to it. This is one aspect of Santi that is trumpeted all over their promotional videos too. Better stretch can be achieved by using pure neoprene suits. This means that a closer cut suit is possible with neoprene than with Santi or any other shell suit. Here are my personal preferences:
.
Custom made neoprene suit > Custom made shell suit > Stock shell suit > Stock Neoprene suit

I am one of those who value the comfort of a fully customized RV more than an over marketed BMW whose designer never spoke to me to find out where I would like to install a couch in my vehicle and where I would put my TV

 

[Superlyte27]

Put two suits side by side... if you can't see the differences in the workmanship, materials and innovation.... then yes, you need new glasses.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Nooooo......isn't it obvious?? They are exactly the same.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I've owned a lot of dry suits over the years. I've had shell and neoprene suits. I've always had a preference for neoprene. I like the way they fit much better than shell suits. Shell suits always seem to be baggy on me. Maybe I've just owned the wrong shell suits. That being said, I've also owned a neoprene suit that was a little baggy on me, too. I will say that my favorite dry suit is the least expensive suit I've ever bought. When I bought it I figured I won't lose too much because of the price. A year later I'm still diving the same suit with no repairs or alterations done to it (other than a p valve install) and loving it. I just bought a 2nd one because I'll eventually need to replace the seals and want ot have a backup in place for when that day comes. It is the only suit I've owned that has yet to leak on me. I have about 200 dives on it right now and have put it through quite a bit and it continues to hold up. And it fits like it was custom made for me. This is something I've never had before, not with a $1500 suit or a $3000 suit, and all with a suit that costs less than $1000!

My point is shop around and try different suits. Quality doesn't necessarily mean high price.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I've owned a lot of dry suits over the years. I've had shell and neoprene suits. I've always had a preference for neoprene. I like the way they fit much better than shell suits. Shell suits always seem to be baggy on me. Maybe I've just owned the wrong shell suits. That being said, I've also owned a neoprene suit that was a little baggy on me, too. I will say that my favorite dry suit is the least expensive suit I've ever bought. When I bought it I figured I won't lose too much because of the price. A year later I'm still diving the same suit with no repairs or alterations done to it (other than a p valve install) and loving it. I just bought a 2nd one because I'll eventually need to replace the seals and want ot have a backup in place for when that day comes. It is the only suit I've owned that has yet to leak on me. I have about 200 dives on it right now and have put it through quite a bit and it continues to hold up. And it fits like it was custom made for me. This is something I've never had before, not with a $1500 suit or a $3000 suit, and all with a suit that costs less than $1000!

My point is shop around and try different suits. Quality doesn't necessarily mean high price.

This. Exactly my experience.

 

[eelnoraa]

Yes quality is not proportional to price. That is diminishing return. But to say a santi isn't better made all around than USIA is a highly under statement.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Yes quality is not proportional to price. That is diminishing return. But to say a santi isn't better made all around than USIA is a highly under statement.

Ok so here is USIA's Techni-flex that I test-dove:

USIA Techniflex Front Zip Drysuit | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL

1. Material wise, it is made of similar kind of stretch-fabric used in Santi.

2. USIA has better valves than Santi IMHO. USIA comes with Sitech valves and Santi comes with Apeks valves. I was test diving my share of suits with a very thick 7 mm glove because we were assuming ice conditions. The USIA valve was easier to rotate with those gloves than Apeks. It also vented faster so in the valves department USIA would be my suit of choice. Santi were made in Europe so it made no economic sense to import American valves.

3. Santi has a plastic-like zipper and USIA has a steel zipper. I do not know which suit wins this one. Santi has succeeded in creating a zipper that needs less waxing and less post dive care but my concern would be what if someone drops a tank on it while you are on an Alaskan liveaboard miles away from civilization? By the end of the day it is plastic vs steel, so who would win this round? Your call.

4. There was one area where USIA would beat Santi for me and that is fitting. On my body, a stock sized USIA fits better than a stock Santi and this ends the game.

5. I am still not satisfied with USIA fitting and would prefer a custom made suit. My waist is 35 and my chest is 47 so there really is no "Stock-size" out there from any brand that is cut to accommodate a 12 inch difference in waist and chest. Stock sizes are either too tight on me in the chest area or too loose and baggy on the waist. Thus I would be looking for a manufacturer who would talk to me over the phone (human voice) understand my physical dimensions and realize that a "Stock size" is not what I am looking for and then cut the suit to those measurements. USIA offers this kind of personalized attention. Santi sells stock sizes.

In the end I would rather dive with a well fitted suit that is brandless than a branded suit that does not fit.

End note: I now dive with a custom made 3mm Neoprene suit which is far stretchier than both Santi and USIA (cuz its neoprene). It is far warmer than Santi and USIA (cuz its neoprene). It is built closer to my body (cuz it is neoprene) and it weight the same as my 3mm wetsuit (cuz it is neoprene)

 

[johnkendall]

Ok so here is USIA's Techni-flex that I test-dove:

USIA Techniflex Front Zip Drysuit | Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL

1. Material wise, it is made of similar kind of stretch-fabric used in Santi.

2. USIA has better valves than Santi IMHO. USIA comes with Sitech valves and Santi comes with Apeks valves. I was test diving my share of suits with a very thick 7 mm glove because we were assuming ice conditions. The USIA valve was easier to rotate with those gloves than Apeks. It also vented faster so in the valves department USIA would be my suit of choice. Santi were made in Europe so it made no economic sense to import American valves.

3. Santi has a plastic-like zipper and USIA has a steel zipper. I do not know which suit wins this one. Santi has succeeded in creating a zipper that needs less waxing and less post dive care but my concern would be what if someone drops a tank on it while you are on an Alaskan liveaboard miles away from civilization? By the end of the day it is plastic vs steel, so who would win this round? Your call.

4. There was one area where USIA would beat Santi for me and that is fitting. On my body, a stock sized USIA fits better than a stock Santi and this ends the game.

5. I am still not satisfied with USIA fitting and would prefer a custom made suit. My waist is 35 and my chest is 47 so there really is no "Stock-size" out there from any brand that is cut to accommodate a 12 inch difference in waist and chest. Stock sizes are either too tight on me in the chest area or too loose and baggy on the waist. Thus I would be looking for a manufacturer who would talk to me over the phone (human voice) understand my physical dimensions and realize that a "Stock size" is not what I am looking for and then cut the suit to those measurements. USIA offers this kind of personalized attention. Santi sells stock sizes.

In the end I would rather dive with a well fitted suit that is brandless than a branded suit that does not fit.

End note: I now dive with a custom made 3mm Neoprene suit which is far stretchier than both Santi and USIA (cuz its neoprene). It is far warmer than Santi and USIA (cuz its neoprene). It is built closer to my body (cuz it is neoprene) and it weight the same as my 3mm wetsuit (cuz it is neoprene)

Just to correct a few errors.

1 - Santi are the only people who have the material that they use
2 - Santi suits can come with either Apeks or Sitech valves, or a mix of both. And Sitech are made in Sweden.
3 - Santi offer the choice of either a traditional metal zip or the plastic Tizip. And my money would be on the Tizip when it comes to having things dropped on it and surviving.
4 - Fair enough
5 - Santi do fully made to measure suits, and all of the dealers/distributors know how to measure for them properly.

HTH
John

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

5. I am still not satisfied with USIA fitting and would prefer a custom made suit. My waist is 35 and my chest is 47 so there really is no "Stock-size" out there from any brand that is cut to accommodate a 12 inch difference in waist and chest. Stock sizes are either too tight on me in the chest area or too loose and baggy on the waist. Thus I would be looking for a manufacturer who would talk to me over the phone (human voice) understand my physical dimensions and realize that a "Stock size" is not what I am looking for and then cut the suit to those measurements. USIA offers this kind of personalized attention. Santi sells stock sizes.

I have pretty much the same measurements as you (35 waist, 45 chest, 6' tall) same dilemma. You've tried a lot of suits, and you're saying for those built like us, there's really NO off the rack drysuit brand/size/style that's gonna work? So who makes the best value custom suits? My last drysuit was a Monterey Bay Wetsuits custom 1/4" neoprene made around 2000. I loved that thing and dove it for years, but it hasn't fit me now for quite a while. (It's still hanging in mint condition, waiting for my son to get a little taller.)