Looking for advice for intro to cave/cave 1 equivalent
- Thread starter Kitzy
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ginti
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@Kitzy, with the experience you have, when you finish, you'll have to trade off between dives you aren't ready to do, and losing your skills (training isn't sufficient for full-cave dives - you need to really understand the caves, factor many risks, etc.; multistage exponentially increases the challenges). This is not what you want. It's either a waste of money or taking a lot of risks.
I get the money factor, and I won't suggest going for GUE. There are so many awesome instructors with any agency, and I am sure you found a top one.
But take only the intro-to-cave, and do at least some dives (no less than 10ish, in the lot you can have lots of fun with intro-to-cave in one or even two weeks, you can then go to other places). Then move into full-cave or even full + multi-stage.
Just think about this, no reason to reply. If you thought thoroughly about it, and if you really understand where you are going, just forget this message and move on. But think about it thoroughly
Have fun underwater
I get the money factor, and I won't suggest going for GUE. There are so many awesome instructors with any agency, and I am sure you found a top one.
But take only the intro-to-cave, and do at least some dives (no less than 10ish, in the lot you can have lots of fun with intro-to-cave in one or even two weeks, you can then go to other places). Then move into full-cave or even full + multi-stage.
Just think about this, no reason to reply. If you thought thoroughly about it, and if you really understand where you are going, just forget this message and move on. But think about it thoroughly
Have fun underwater
- Very thick cave line where you cannot use normal cave markers but you can pull it without problems
- No real jumps and navigation decisions during your dives because of the permanent line system in place
- Guide is compulsory by law, all the dives are kind of trust me dives because you can't use markers (the permanent arrows will let you exit the cave in an emergency but it still feels weird at the beginning)
- Few real restrictions/tighter passages, you won't get the estimate where you fit naturally and where you don't
- Their entanglement avoidance rules are great for doubles but inefficient for less used systems like sidemount or chestmount CCR (not dangerous but definitely annoying when they force you to have the line exactly below you to entangle/roll off your oxygen valve on your CCR, might change once FX becomes more wide spread there)
Zero to Hero is an absolutely horrible idea unless you are an exceptionally skilled and heavily trained diver already. Being fundies tech would not be what I would consider good enough. There are a couple instructors here who really push it, but I wholeheartedly disagree unless it is a very specifically proficient diver. The average cave diver lasts 3 years or less, those who do zero to hero I find locally almost always fall into that category.
One of the most important parts of cave training is becoming a thinking diver. Rushing through classes will likely leave you with learned behaviors for emergency scenarios, but you're not building comfort, confidence, and the experience needed to really be a thinking diver who isn't just reacting. Taking baby steps by taking a class then going and diving really reinforces those skills through experience. I understand that cave diving is expensive when you have to travel, but trying to save money doing a zero to hero course is far from ideal.
Whenever someone asks me about cave training I have two major things I tell everyone to avoid:
1) Zero to Hero
2) Classes where you are the only student and your instructor is your buddy.
For #2, your instructor is completely comfortable in the water and is not going to participate in a drill the same way an inexperienced buddy will. You're just being set up for failure for when you end up diving with a less skilled diver. On top of that I don't believe your instructor can evaluate you as well as they could as if they are an uninvolved observer.
A great example was while doing lost line drills, my wife missed the line a few times and had to go back and forth unreeling and reeling in the spool. Once she found the line and tied in she somehow tied herself into the line ( I believe it was her light cord that somehow got tied in but don't fully remember). She took it upon herself to cut the jump line and untangle herself after multiple failed attempts to untangle without the instructor interceding. It was a valuable lesson. Obviously an instructor being your buddy isn't going to be doing the lost line drill. That was just an example of the unraveling list of back to back issues that can occur with a stressed or new diver. Personally, I want that experience, not the experience of things being pretty easy because my instructor is my buddy.
Clearly, this is all my personal opinion, and at the end of the day it's your money to make the choice with. But I'd rather save and do it the right way than the cheaper way. This opinion is based on being an almost 15 year cave diver who has taken multiple advanced cave courses with multiple instructors and has done unnecessary recurrent cave training with other agencies and instructors purely in the pursuit of knowledge and betterment of skills. I put alot of value on high quality training
mr_v
Contributor
Zero-to-hero is doable, but it will require so much pre-training training and post-training diving, that most people who live far away from caves won't find it practical.
And I am with @rddvet on having another student in class. You have no idea how quickly new cave students will make a bad situation out of a good one.
And I am with @rddvet on having another student in class. You have no idea how quickly new cave students will make a bad situation out of a good one.
ginti
Contributor
Given we have the same view allow me to mention to the OP that being a thinking diver in a cave is not only about emergencies.
- It's about understanding how flow/thermocline/silt etc. affect navigation/planning etc.
- It's about reading the line properly
- It's about understanding when/where you are comfortable
- etc.
Cave diving is easy IMHO, but offer ZERO margins for errors. ZERO, period. The comfort and awareness of a diver 1800m inside a cave (around 2h at 15m/min) must be total, cause when something happens (when - not if, when) the reaction must be perfect. Experience is almost always necessary, except very rare cases (I agree, a tech pass is not even close to be sufficient).
Agree on the buddy too.
DiveLikeAMuppet
Contributor
+1 for both, especially for having just one student in the class. Having to adapt to failures and imperfections of other students makes a massive difference.
I think it's the easiest criteria to vet an instructor: just ask if they are willing to teach 1:1 and discard anyone who says yes for an intro/full cave course (it probably does have a place for extreme exploration mentoring). It's actually shocking how many (Insta)famous instructors and shops teach like 1:1 just to get some cash in at the cost of students.
This is very accurate and one of the things I ask the students to question their instructor on. A good instructor can usually find a buddy or experienced diver to join the team. Obviously that's not always the case, but the good instructors will bust their butt to find a buddy as opposed to doing 1:1.
I refer to the Insta instructors as the Kave Kardashians. They always want to be seen and are always full of drama.
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