Looking for advice for intro to cave/cave 1 equivalent

[Kitzy]

@Kitzy, looks like both of us are fine felines, so please allow me to drop a few meows of wisdom.

Have you considered coming to the US for cave training? I am sure Netherlands are nice in winter, but FL is quite comfortable, too. Flights should be relatively short and affordable. You can rent most of the equipment in Cave Country and the logistics are quite easy. Florida has all major agency instructors and there is entertainment near by - take your family to Orlando if they come with you.

Thanks, sadly for me (Or my family) going to the US is not something that is easily afforded (The 2 times I went it wasn't out of my pocket)

I'd love to go diving there, even cave diving, but if I do I want it to be on my own terms not during a course.

As my diving training journey draws to a close, and it most likely will after cave/dpv training, I will start to go on dive vacations, something I have almost never done (0 dives in tropical waters, only ever did a few dives in Norway and America - Seattle, alongside Germany).

Eventually as I find myself craving further progression I will stop going on dive vacations and go for certifications/equipment once more.

 

[chrisch]

I would certainly go to France over the US/Mex. It is a 12 hour drive from Rotterdam to the Lot region but you have no flights or other issues and no wait to fly on the last day. There is also cave diving on the Swiss border near Pontarlier which is a bit closer (700km to Rotterdam). Also in Switzerland itself.

If you drive you can take your own equipment, which is better IMHO as you will be familiar with it. Rental drysuits are also a bit hit and miss.

Lots of Dutch divers in the region. One that I know bought the house near Landenouse which really annoyed me as I did not know it was for sale or I would have snapped it up myself. Nice guy though. He was thinking of doing bed and breakfast - don't know if he ever did.

Pics from Landenouse here: Landenouse - 05/2019 | cavedivingpictures

Quite a few photos of my friend Olivier Bertieaux in there as well at some of the other venues. He does courses if your French is OK.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

At the moment if you just want to have the option to do some decopressiondiving, I would advice to do an advanced nitrox course. Then you learn how to plan dives, how to use a stage, but you are limited to 40m depth.
...
There is no cheap technical diving, but you can make it with some things a little bit less expensive and that is what you see that happens.

Some deco training (AN/DP) could be a fun option to get into technical diving if you cannot dive caves consistently. The impacts of making a mistake in a cave are significantly higher than in "deco light" diving. If you are cost-constrained and cannot dive consistently, maintaining AN/DP skills is probably easier in a local quarry than cave conditioning.

I would second Under the Jungle, and I believe you want to talk with Vince Rouquette-Cathala. He’s a wonderful diver and instructor from France, he probably knows the top teachers in France.

One thing to consider is that UTJ (never trained with them but I dived with people who fully bought into the UTJ approach and religiously followed it) produce robust but very solo/independent-minded divers. They will happily teach a cave course 1:1, which is something not allowed by agencies focused on team diving. I also doubt that they use some of the skills they teach in real life diving, to put it politely. It might or might not be your thing.

I would certainly go to France over the US/Mex. It is a 12 hour drive from Rotterdam to the Lot region but you have no flights or other issues and no wait to fly on the last day. There is also cave diving on the Swiss border near Pontarlier which is a bit closer (700km to Rotterdam). Also in Switzerland itself.

Pics from Landenouse here: Landenouse - 05/2019 | cavedivingpictures

Quite a few photos of my friend Olivier Bertieaux in there as well at some of the other venues. He does courses if your French is OK.

Second that, Lot is very accessible, the countryside is just stunning and you can bring your own gear easily. You could also try some of the German mines.

 

[halocline]

One thing to consider is that UTJ (never trained with them but I dived with people who fully bought into the UTJ approach and religiously followed it) produce robust but very solo/independent-minded divers. They will happily teach a cave course 1:1, which is something not allowed by agencies focused on team diving. I also doubt that they use some of the skills they teach in real life diving, to put it politely.

Well, you are speaking from a point of ignorance about Under the Jungle, whereas I’ve been diving with them, including taking multiple courses, for over 10 years. The training is intensely team oriented. And they certainly use the skills they teach in real life diving.

The idea that you can’t or don’t learn team diving skills when taking a course 1:1 is absurd. The instructor is your teammate in that scenario, and it works every bit as well, in some ways better, than having another student as your teammate. I know this through actual experience in both scenarios.

You should refrain from posting about a shop and/or teachers that you have no experience with, because you’re posting nonsense.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

Well, you are speaking from a point of ignorance about Under the Jungle, whereas I’ve been diving with them, including taking multiple courses, for over 10 years. The training is intensely team oriented. And they certainly use the skills they teach in real life diving.

I did say I only dived with people trained there and this was my impression - things like not being drilled into confirming gas switches with the team and just switching on their own. I'm not saying the training is wrong.

OP mentioned that they are in the GUE community which is very team-oriented, so it's also good to consider this.

The idea that you can’t or don’t learn team diving skills when taking a course 1:1 is absurd. The instructor is your teammate in that scenario, and it works every bit as well, in some ways better, than having another student as your teammate. I know this through actual experience in both scenarios.

Nobody can create so many interesting scenarios (read unpredictable f*ckups) as two or three students trying their best. Wrong signals? Teammates stressed out? Three people fumbling around during a zero visibility exit? Someone losing control of their buoyancy? The shared fear of the cave ghost/gremlin hiding in the shadows to throw yet another scenario at you? I feel that learning to adapt to divers at the same skill level is useful, nevermind that it's fun - and it motivates you because you don't want to let down people around you.

 

[rjack321]

I did say I only dived with people trained there and this was my impression - things like not being drilled into confirming gas switches with the team and just switching on their own. I'm not saying the training is wrong.

You're diving with individually sloppy divers who just happen to also have UTJ cards. Nat certainly isn't teaching solo switches.

 

[mr_v]

The idea that you can’t or don’t learn team diving skills when taking a course 1:1 is absurd. The instructor is your teammate in that scenario, and it works every bit as well, in some ways better, than having another student as your teammate. I know this through actual experience in both scenarios.

Having experienced both scenarios, I respectfully disagree.

Take cave class with other students. If you must take a follow-up private class, do that, too. But practicing with other students is very good. You'll see how good things can quickly go wrong in a team that is learning to dive together.