Long hose primary now, BP/W later?

[lamont]

RT -- you may very well be a true "true believer" but

uhm, Todd has been diving with JJ in caves since at least the mid 90s. he's not really a true believer, he just knows what it is.

, quite honestly, your advice not only is wrong

no its really not. i'll disagree with him only in emphasis that the diver should do fundies as a priority, if for no other reason than to get off of the internet. only takes about 25 dives or so. in order to do that, i believe the long hose is more of a barrier to the course than the BP/W, but that's up to the instructor in question.

but you do a very good job of confirming what too many people think of "DIR Divers" -- that they are arrogant SOB's.

do you think that other posters on scubaboard who are DIR ever get confirmation that internet-DIR has become watered down with a bunch of late comers who are very far removed from what it is about?

Thus if someone, like the OP, wants to make a "tiny step" towards the Hog rig (NOT the "DIR" rig), why not put a long hose on the primary and bungie the backup? This becomes a very nice recreational diving setup REGARDLESS if the individual goes on to drink the Kool-Aid or such.

it may be a "very nice recreational diving setup" as far as the average OW setup is concerned, but its still not DIR. todd is still right that you need to ditch the jacket BC and get into a BP/W.

 

[TSandM]

NOBODY -- but NOBODY -- is saying that you don't have to have the equipment right to be DIR-compliant.

The OP wants to move toward a DIR setup, but can't do it all at once.

We can tell him, "Save your money until you can do it all, because there's no point in doing any part of it because part is not DIR." It's certainly true that it ain't DIR until it's DIR.

We can tell him, "You can't get your buoyancy and trim right without a BP/W." That's NOT true. It's easier with a BP/W. And a BP/W will scale to whatever more ambitious diving he may eventually want to do. It's a useful setup. It's the only setup that's DIR. It's NOT the only setup in which you can be balanced and have good trim.

We can tell him, "An inexpensive and easy first step is a longer primary hose and bungied backup regulator. With that, you can work on buoyancy and trim, while having a sensible arrangement for self-rescue and air-sharing." I think that makes sense.

I respect RTodd for his experience. He's done dives I'll never dream of doing. It doesn't excuse rudeness, and it doesn't even necessarily make him right.

I do not think the way to encourage people to move toward a DIR approach to diving is to be abrasive and rude to them when they ask how to start. Insisting that you have to commit 100% from the get-go makes the whole approach impractical for many people. Some require time to switch equipment over. But they can work on skills and situational awareness and communication and buoyancy and trim with what they have, until they can put together the entire required equipment configuration for Fundies. (According to a poll I ran some time ago, that set of equipment requirements for the entry level class is one of the biggest hurdles that keeps people from investigating DIR diving.)

I don't have RTodd's experience, but I think I have a lot more empathy for the beginning diver who wants to check out what looks like it might be a better way of diving, but just can't drop six or seven hundred dollars to switch equipment over all at once. I think we should encourage them; some of you others think they should sit on the sidelines until they can put themselves together in a perfect DIR setup. It's a different mindset.

 

[nadwidny]

I don't have RTodd's experience, but I think I have a lot more empathy for the beginning diver who wants to check out what looks like it might be a better way of diving, but just can't drop six or seven hundred dollars to switch equipment over all at once. I think we should encourage them; some of you others think they should sit on the sidelines until they can put themselves together in a perfect DIR setup. It's a different mindset.

Personally I'll take experience over empathy every time...but that's just me.

 

[Sloth]

You can be firm on standards and protocols without using a two by four.

 

[b1gcountry]

We haven't heard from the OP in 23 posts. I doubt they're reading this anymore...

Didn't GUE just introduce some workshops for letting people get a taste of DIR instruction without having to jump in head first?

Tom

You can't be fully committed to a thing without first knowing what it is.

 

[LiteHedded]

EE has halcyon demo days at ginnie or blue grotto from time to time down here where you can try things out and get a feel for it.

 

[sam1]

Thanks for all the input. (I didn't mean to start a fight!) BTW it's not a money issue. The regs/hoses I can get locally or on the internet. I would prefer to get the BP/W from an LDS and I am thinking of Halcyon but there is not a Halcyon dealer nearby.

Steve

 

[OneBrightGator]

RT -- you may very well be a true "true believer" but, quite honestly, your advice not only is wrong but you do a very good job of confirming what too many people think of "DIR Divers" -- that they are arrogant SOB's.

Fortunately for many of us, GUE has NOT been the only "DIR" game in town -- which has thus permitted some of us to get introduced to the important aspects of "DIR Diving" without getting a whole lot of new gear. I hope the OP takes advantage of one of those classes if he can.

Well, the OP did ask the question in the DIR forum and he got the standard internet DIR answers. Don't think you could expect anything less really. However, as abrasive as some of the responses have been, I feel they are spot-on. DIR takes a fair amount of commitment and those in the know are doing him a favor being straight up about that. I feel he should take Fundies before doing anything else. He can rent or borrow all the gear he needs. That will give him an idea if this is something he wants to do or not and allow him to make better informed equipment purchases.

 

[Rainer]

Thanks for all the input. (I didn't mean to start a fight!) BTW it's not a money issue. The regs/hoses I can get locally or on the internet. I would prefer to get the BP/W from an LDS and I am thinking of Halcyon but there is not a Halcyon dealer nearby.

Steve

If you also want to speak to a local GUE instructor (Ed Hayes), take the 90 minute drive down to Scuba Shack in CT (they sell H gear).