Lobster hunting free diver dead - Laguna Beach cove, California
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Craig Miller
New
So sorry for your loss. I hope you find happiness in knowing your friend passed while doing something he loved doing.
Hatul
Contributor
I've always considered free diving more risky than scuba, and hunting increases the risk even more (both in scuba and free diving ).
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@Lisa R
stated;
….This was a tragic accident in a dangerous sport. More confirmed details will be emerging clarifying details. But as his family, talking to people there with him, experts who worked with him, it’s upsetting to see media report inaccurate news.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In days of yesteryear in LA & OC any time there was a diving accident there was a report of findings consisting of investigation and opinion based on the expertise of the following
1) Dive instructor ( LA Co Certified )
2) Life guard (If involved)
3) Coast Guard (If involved)
4) County Cornier always a autopsy
A report of finding was published and often republished in the now defunct LA Co UW News
Until a deceased family member attempted litigation for post mortem defamation of character.
Recreational diving is in its infancy, there is now acceptable training, decent equipment and certain .recognized training procedure, even so tragic still accidents occur
It is important for all divers every where to learn from these events
If not too painful for you.....
Would you take time to share any additional information you have gleamed about the tragic passing of your beloved brother ?
Or perhaps those involved respond with details with a post to this board ?
Sincerely
Sam Miller, III
@Scuba Lawyer
stated;
….This was a tragic accident in a dangerous sport. More confirmed details will be emerging clarifying details. But as his family, talking to people there with him, experts who worked with him, it’s upsetting to see media report inaccurate news.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In days of yesteryear in LA & OC any time there was a diving accident there was a report of findings consisting of investigation and opinion based on the expertise of the following
1) Dive instructor ( LA Co Certified )
2) Life guard (If involved)
3) Coast Guard (If involved)
4) County Cornier always a autopsy
A report of finding was published and often republished in the now defunct LA Co UW News
Until a deceased family member attempted litigation for post mortem defamation of character.
Recreational diving is in its infancy, there is now acceptable training, decent equipment and certain .recognized training procedure, even so tragic still accidents occur
It is important for all divers every where to learn from these events
If not too painful for you.....
Would you take time to share any additional information you have gleamed about the tragic passing of your beloved brother ?
Or perhaps those involved respond with details with a post to this board ?
Sincerely
Sam Miller, III
@Scuba Lawyer
- Messages
- 5,141
- Reaction score
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- # of dives
- 5000 - ∞
This just received
So sad -- so very sad to lose one of our own
Sam Miller, 111
So sad -- so very sad to lose one of our own
Sam Miller, 111
- Messages
- 5,141
- Reaction score
- 4,144
- # of dives
- 5000 - ∞
Any additional information on this horrible dive tragedy ?
SDM
SDM
Diane Huff
New
Ryan is my husband, and while I am not a diver, I would love to explain the details to the best of my ability in hopes that others can learn from this.
He’d been a free diver for 4 years and was FII certified. He was athletic, experienced, and confident in the water.
There are many factors that contributed to his passing on 9/28. He already got his limit on lobster that morning. He had them in bag on his waist. He saw a sheepshead, and told his buddies he was going to get it. It appears that he shot at it, and missed. The shaft got stuck in the rocks. Based on watch data, he went down to retrieve it but couldn’t get it dislodged and began his ascent. He was under for 40 seconds and was at 25ft at that point.
For a guy who could hold his breath for 5min and dive 100+ feet, this was typically an easy dive for him despite rough conditions.
His ascent took 19 seconds (now under for 59 seconds- other dives that day were all about 50 seconds), and then he stops 4 feet below the surface. He floats at this depth for about 15 seconds before he sinks back down (buoyancy should have kept him afloat, but maybe the weight of the lobster was enough to send him back down? Or the swell could have pushed him?).
It does appear that he experienced a shallow water blackout during the ascent. There was no panic, no flailing... just up and down. The watch does show a spike in heart rate when he stopped below the water’s surface, then it goes back down. As far as what caused the blackout ..we only have theories to rely on. The shaft of his gun was stuck at the bottom, and his gun reel got snagged with the lobster bag. That snag may have been enough to yank him and cause him to pass out. Or maybe it was simply a shallow water blackout and he happened to be tangled on his way up but never realized it? He did not touch the knife strapped to his arm. If he were conscious, he would’ve cut himself free. He was not someone who panicked; he was a fast reactor.
His partners got to him within a minute of him sinking. They tried to get him to the surface, but his dive line was so tangled... with the reel being stuck in the lobster bag... they couldn’t get him to the surface. His lobster bag was not a quick-release bag. It was cinched so tight on his waist- they couldn’t even cut it off. His two friends nearly drowned trying to save him. I appreciate his friends so much and know they did everything they could to help him. They eventually got him to the surface, and struggled getting him to shore because of rough conditions. When they got him in, life saving efforts were made on the beach, in the ambulance, and at the hospital. He never regained consciousness or a heartbeat after that last dive (his 29th dive that morning).
Based on watch data, he was breathing up responsibly for all of his dives. With conditions, etc. he would have been fatigued- but nothing out of the ordinary. It was a freak accident. The blackout, the entanglement, the lobster bag, the conditions- these all appear to be the main players, and they all came together to create the worst outcome.
What we can learn:
- Don’t dive with a lobster bag! Use a float line.
- If you have a bag on your waist, make sure it’s a quick-release bag.
- No matter what your experience, these things can happen even on a standard dive.
The only way to prevent this from happening that day would have been for him not to go. Nothing would have stopped him from going! He died too soon, and my two young sons and I miss him terribly. But he lived a life of adventure and he packed his 40 years with incredible experiences. He was doing what he loved and he did not suffer. I am so thankful for that.
I plan to get certified myself and get my own lobster next season. I want to bring back at least one that he should’ve brought home that day! And I want to show my boys to love the ocean they way their dad did.
I hope this helps clarify what happened a bit!
He’d been a free diver for 4 years and was FII certified. He was athletic, experienced, and confident in the water.
There are many factors that contributed to his passing on 9/28. He already got his limit on lobster that morning. He had them in bag on his waist. He saw a sheepshead, and told his buddies he was going to get it. It appears that he shot at it, and missed. The shaft got stuck in the rocks. Based on watch data, he went down to retrieve it but couldn’t get it dislodged and began his ascent. He was under for 40 seconds and was at 25ft at that point.
For a guy who could hold his breath for 5min and dive 100+ feet, this was typically an easy dive for him despite rough conditions.
His ascent took 19 seconds (now under for 59 seconds- other dives that day were all about 50 seconds), and then he stops 4 feet below the surface. He floats at this depth for about 15 seconds before he sinks back down (buoyancy should have kept him afloat, but maybe the weight of the lobster was enough to send him back down? Or the swell could have pushed him?).
It does appear that he experienced a shallow water blackout during the ascent. There was no panic, no flailing... just up and down. The watch does show a spike in heart rate when he stopped below the water’s surface, then it goes back down. As far as what caused the blackout ..we only have theories to rely on. The shaft of his gun was stuck at the bottom, and his gun reel got snagged with the lobster bag. That snag may have been enough to yank him and cause him to pass out. Or maybe it was simply a shallow water blackout and he happened to be tangled on his way up but never realized it? He did not touch the knife strapped to his arm. If he were conscious, he would’ve cut himself free. He was not someone who panicked; he was a fast reactor.
His partners got to him within a minute of him sinking. They tried to get him to the surface, but his dive line was so tangled... with the reel being stuck in the lobster bag... they couldn’t get him to the surface. His lobster bag was not a quick-release bag. It was cinched so tight on his waist- they couldn’t even cut it off. His two friends nearly drowned trying to save him. I appreciate his friends so much and know they did everything they could to help him. They eventually got him to the surface, and struggled getting him to shore because of rough conditions. When they got him in, life saving efforts were made on the beach, in the ambulance, and at the hospital. He never regained consciousness or a heartbeat after that last dive (his 29th dive that morning).
Based on watch data, he was breathing up responsibly for all of his dives. With conditions, etc. he would have been fatigued- but nothing out of the ordinary. It was a freak accident. The blackout, the entanglement, the lobster bag, the conditions- these all appear to be the main players, and they all came together to create the worst outcome.
What we can learn:
- Don’t dive with a lobster bag! Use a float line.
- If you have a bag on your waist, make sure it’s a quick-release bag.
- No matter what your experience, these things can happen even on a standard dive.
The only way to prevent this from happening that day would have been for him not to go. Nothing would have stopped him from going! He died too soon, and my two young sons and I miss him terribly. But he lived a life of adventure and he packed his 40 years with incredible experiences. He was doing what he loved and he did not suffer. I am so thankful for that.
I plan to get certified myself and get my own lobster next season. I want to bring back at least one that he should’ve brought home that day! And I want to show my boys to love the ocean they way their dad did.
I hope this helps clarify what happened a bit!
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
RIP
It’s always tragic when we lose a brother in diving. I’m so sorry to hear about this tragedy.
...and to the press with their good old “oxygen tank”, please get a clue.
It’s always tragic when we lose a brother in diving. I’m so sorry to hear about this tragedy.
...and to the press with their good old “oxygen tank”, please get a clue.
johndiver999
Contributor
Very sorry to hear about this terrible accident. For a good diver to black out on a dive of less than one minute in relatively shallow water is hard to understand. We don't know how much effort and energy he expended trying to free the stuck shaft. It can be considerable.
Freedivers are very well practiced in using their legs in a relaxed and efficient manner when freediving. Generally the remainder of the body is more or less very relaxed. When a freediver starts to fight with a strong fish or wrestle with a shaft or start man handling an anchor to free it.. all these scenarios are very different because now the diver is activating the large chest, back and arm muscles etc.
Using all these muscles in an intense manner - when they are normal very relaxed will cause a very significant decrease in the safe dive time. This might be an important clue as to how a strong diver could get in trouble on a seemingly short and shallow dive.
Probably an even more important piece of the puzzle is missing however. It is probably recorded on the dive watch. The missing datum is how long was the surface interval (breath up) period before the last dive.
A shortened rest period between dives can drastically reduce dive time. I wonder if his rest interval is available?
Perhaps release of the surface interval time will provide a better picture of the scenario.
I hope my question/comment is not construed as a potential criticism of the victim - it is not. Getting tangled in lines when freediving is pretty much every freediver's nightmare and could happen to anyone. Using a speargun with a reel that typically contains super strong kevlar line (which is over 400 lb test and very cut resistant) adds considerable complexity to the activity.
Freedivers are very well practiced in using their legs in a relaxed and efficient manner when freediving. Generally the remainder of the body is more or less very relaxed. When a freediver starts to fight with a strong fish or wrestle with a shaft or start man handling an anchor to free it.. all these scenarios are very different because now the diver is activating the large chest, back and arm muscles etc.
Using all these muscles in an intense manner - when they are normal very relaxed will cause a very significant decrease in the safe dive time. This might be an important clue as to how a strong diver could get in trouble on a seemingly short and shallow dive.
Probably an even more important piece of the puzzle is missing however. It is probably recorded on the dive watch. The missing datum is how long was the surface interval (breath up) period before the last dive.
A shortened rest period between dives can drastically reduce dive time. I wonder if his rest interval is available?
Perhaps release of the surface interval time will provide a better picture of the scenario.
I hope my question/comment is not construed as a potential criticism of the victim - it is not. Getting tangled in lines when freediving is pretty much every freediver's nightmare and could happen to anyone. Using a speargun with a reel that typically contains super strong kevlar line (which is over 400 lb test and very cut resistant) adds considerable complexity to the activity.
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