Liveaboard tipping, what is the local custom?

[Lorenzoid]

Thanks for all the replies! We will be on the Blue Manta Oct 20th to Oct 30th 2018 in Raja Ampat. Yes, there are cheaper boats but it is our anniversary and we liked what we read. Imho we are paying top dollar and kinda expect a trip that will blow our socks off. Where we booked thru they 'suggest" 10% to 20%, that was not going to happen! We will tip but not to the extent of their advice. We really hope this will be a trip dreams are made of Bill and Dee Dee

I think the two boats are no longer owned by the same company, but it was the White Manta to which I referred in an earlier post about lecturing us on tipping on the last day, as they handed out the envelopes. Yeah, they "suggested" 10%. Being an American goober, I tipped 10%.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Hey dirtfarmer, some of the places and boats that I frequent have a "rule" "SOP" etc., that supposedly all staff have agreed to and that is no individual tips.

This doesn't always stop me from discreetly slipping a little extra to anyone on staff that I feel has done me an extra service, whether that is my dive guide, a maid, boat boy or a bartender.

Slipping a little extra to some types of providers of services--bartenders, maids, etc.--seems innocent enough, but I wonder if doing so to divemasters might encourage them to bend rules that could potentially impact safety or skew the divermaster's attention toward the big tipper and away from other guests?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Hey dirtfarmer, some of the places and boats that I frequent have a "rule" "SOP" etc., that supposedly all staff have agreed to and that is no individual tips.

This doesn't always stop me from discreetly slipping a little extra to anyone on staff that I feel has done me an extra service, whether that is my dive guide, a maid, boat boy or a bartender.

Slipping a little extra to some types of providers of services--bartenders, maids, etc.--seems innocent enough, but I wonder if doing so to divemasters might encourage them to bend rules that could potentially impact safety or skew the divermaster's attention toward the big tipper and away from other guests?

 

[chillyinCanada]

Dunno Lorenzoid. I don't tip until I leave.

 

[Luko]

Where do you get the idea that all Indo dive guides are equally skilled?

You are misreading me, Chilly

I wrote :

It's strange/weird/scary to hear that some people think that :
...
3- all indonesian guides are equally skilled and knowledgeable (Does he even diffrentiate their names or are they just "those Indonesian people" to him? or maybe he just whistles at them?)

Which means -once you leave the irony aside- that I am amazed the dive OP manager thinks that if a photographer choses to give a tip to a guide, then the guide SHOULD HAVE CHEATED somehow, independantly of his own skills.
Implying the manager thinks every guide is the same person with the same spotting/biology skills (which is obviously not the case) and of course equally greedy about tip money, and consequantly everyguide should have got the same tip amount (in the dive manager's simplified world).

Still quoting you:

He went on to tell me that he could easily tell which guide needed enhanced instruction on reef preservation because if Larry and Moe regularly made an extra $20 but Curly more often made an extra $100, well . . .it was apparent what was going on.

You see I've seen things too , like in Bali for instance two private guides harassing two poor Rhinopias (I suspect was of them was herded from afar) to make them yawn for a videographer. I also guess they had their wealthy tip maybe one of them was called Curly.

Or on the other hand why not Curly/Aswar being a good tempered gifted guide who's attracting tips for his real and due skills?

You know, I see that "photographer circus", as I am participating to world shoot outs, international photo contests etc. and I see so many photogs that are obviously cheating, some blatantly pretending they didn't do anything ("I was lucky", "I waited for a long time" "that pompom crab was posing for me"...lol...) or even changing the dates of their photos... i don't blame that on the guide but on THEM customers.

For me the dive manager should rather spend his time educating the clients than checking the tip enveloppe.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I'm satisfied that the manager was doing all that as well as drastically improving the quality of the meals.

My apologies for misreading you.

Though with regard to you reading me as equating Aswar to Curly, is quite bewildering to me.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Dunno Lorenzoid. I don't tip until I leave.

Maybe on previous trips when the DM offered the diver a little something extra they received a nice tip at the end. Like fish that get fed by divers, maybe feeding DMs with tips habituates them. I'm suggesting the possibility that slipping a DM something on the side because he did something extra for you might encourage them to do it on the next trip. Of course, if that "something extra" is something like helping you fix a piece of gear, that's great. But what if it's something involving bending the rules, harrassing marine life, or favoring the "rich American" (and sorry if you get mistaken for one) over someone else? Maybe the idea of pooling tips to be split evenly among the crew avoids all that.

 

[chillyinCanada]

For me, it means that they helped me with gear or some such and my knees aren't great anymore either. Sometimes I need assistance beyond that of the majority of other divers.

But I hear you, I do. I shall cogitate.

 

[Luko]

Though with regard to you reading me as equating Aswar to Curly, is quite bewildering to me.

Viewed from that perspective, I admit it may seem weird. I never thought I'd call Aswar "Curly" too.

I am simply deciphering the dive manager's logics and trying to demonstrate the absurdity I find in it :

Starting point : we will agree that Aswar gets the best tips because he's a nice divebuddy and as well as a skillful guide who's aware of the do and don'ts.
At the end of the day the dive manager looks into his crystal tipball trying to check who's done what.

If I apply the Dive manager's theorem,, we'll call Aswar "Curly" for the tips he collected, he will get reprimanded for cheating while he's only being so nice with his clients and found that rhinopias that wasn't seen for months because he knew from the cold temperature/the moon phase it would be around.

If I apply the reverse logics of the dive manager's theorem, Diveguide Moe (who's despised by all the rhinopias around for playing with his stick) didn't get any tip from Chilly because he was systematically poking the frogfish while trying to have it yawn, ...eventually he gets half of Aswar's tip from the manager's hand.

So in the end what I think is that tipping my guide is none of the manager's regard.
First off it's my money and I do what I want with it, i don't need to be patronized with shady tipping logics.(That also goes when I am advised giving a ridiculous 10% tip)
Secondly, I would rather advise the manager to do some management job (organizing work, motivating his team, training the newbies, listening to clients,...) instead of counting money which is either the accountant or the cashier's job. Who needs a operation manager that counts money? you don't manage the customer money in this position, you manage your team.

You know, I even think that this way of splitting tips equally is another mean for preventing explanations, in other words NOT managing the team.by explaining why Curly/Aswar had more tips than others.

 

[xmass-Eve]

As a dive instructor you don't earn much. So you know the people on the boat won't be earning much too. That's why I give them around 1 million IDR. My American boyfriend tips more. I do tip for all and not for the guide seperatly. The crew on the boat have it harder than the guides and the guides get already enough separate tips from other people.
On day trips, it depends what I give, but again, as being European and earning lots less than my bf, it will be less than on a liveaboard. I do for sure not tip extra when guides harras an animal or start moving corals for making a better photo opportunity. On the contrary, I swim away and maybe even tip less.