Listing both PADI OW and AOW redundant?

[Walter]

joele,

I said, "There are no sites which require an AOW card. There are ignorant operators who have such requirements, no sites."

You said, "they won't let you get into the boat if you're not AOW certified"

How do these two statements differ with regard to whom/what is requiring AOW?

I'm not sure you have you facts straight, I don't have an AOW card, but so far everyone's accepted a substitute of equal or greater value.

David,

I teach too, but I refuse to teach AOW, I always teach Silver Advanced instead. If they just want a card, they can buy an AOW card at one of the local shops. I was under the impression SSI didn't teach AOW. I thought your advanced cert was similar to PADI's Master Diver - no class, but the result of x number of dives and various specialty certs.

 

[pipedope]

When I got my PADI AOW in 1981, it was a lot more instruction and diving than today. We did classroom work every thursday evening and dove every saturday for 12 weeks. We started with surf rescue and went all the way to Farnsworth Bank.

Is todays AOW worthwhile?
Probably, but it is dependent on the instructor and the student to design and carry out a plan to improve knowlege and skills.
BTW diving more than required is a real good idea.

 

[David Evans]

Walter once bubbled...
David, I teach too, but I refuse to teach AOW, I always teach Silver Advanced instead. If the just want a card, they can buy an AOW card at one of the local shops. I was under the impression SSI didn't teach AOW. I thought your advanced cert was similar to PADI's Master Diver - no class, but the result of x number of dives and various specialty certs.

Walter, you're mostly correct.

SSI does have an AOW program. It involves 4 specialties (*any* 4 specialties) and 25 dives logged. I teach 4 specific specialties - Night, Nitrox, Nav and Deep - and won't sign off an AOW except with those 4 specialties.

SSI also has a "Master Diver" program, which requires 4 specialties, plus Diver Stress and Rescue, plus 50 logged dives. In that respect, SSI's "Master Diver" rating isn't especially difficult to reach... all you really have to do is *dive* (and isn't that the idea anyway? )

SSI then has added ratings based on the number of dives (e.g., "Century Diver" for 100 dives, etc.)

The next step beyond that is the Dive Control Specialist, or DiveCon, which is analogous to the "Dive Master" certification from other agencies. The DiveCon is a dive leadership/assistant instructor type rating, and is fairly intense in terms of its educational requirements... my DiveCon class was every bit as challenging as my ITC.

As with any instruction, I'm sure that dive leader instruction varies based on the IT and IC.

 

[Walter]

David,

Is the SSI AOW a class? or merely a rating?

 

[David Evans]

Walter, in SSI's terms, it is a "rating", not a class.

However, I teach it as a "class", and that class involves the four specialties I mentioned.

How does PADI (or NAUI) teach this? Is it a class? What subjects are taught?

Thanks,

-d

 

[spthomas]

IMHO, AOW is really just more diving! For a person who has very little experience, this is probably a very good course, because it gets them diving, and exposes them to different types of dives.

I don't know about other agencies, but SSI requies 4 specialty courses, including 6 dives in those specialties, and a total of 24 logged dives to get Advanced. And they say in their standards that specialty courses are designed to introduce and familiarize students with the various diving activities and provide limited experience in those areas. The specialty courses are not intended
to be comprehensive. I think that's fair. And by doing the Advanced they get 20 more dives past the OW minimum. All worthwhile.

Maybe the issue is this: Do you consider someone with limited experience (25 dives) in only 3 or 4 different diving scenarios an Advanced diver? Maybe it's terminology. Maybe "Intermediate Diver" is better?

When I started, I got a card called a "Basic". Not OW, but Basic. Required 2 or 3 dives I think. OW is much better, more material and more dives. Maybe AOW is not really Advanced, just a good start!

But, I'd rather have a diver in my group with 25 dives in at least a few different scenarios than those with 4 dives in one place like newbie OW divers.

=Steve=

 

[Walter]

David,

YMCA has 2 "advanced" classes. AOW is 5 dives and not much in the way of academics. Silver Advanced is the one I teach. It requires academics and 10 dives. I add in pool work to bring them up to snuff and I eliminate the options. I'm very pleased with YMCA's Silver Advanced program, their AOW is, however, an embarrassment.

I don't much care for the concept of "ratings." The diver has gained nothing by picking up a "rating."

Steve,

Basic required (depending on when you took the class) 2 dives while OW required 4 (or more depending on the agency), but other than that, the classes were usually the same.

 

[spthomas]

Yeah, maybe it was just 2 dives required. We did three, but as a newbie I didn't even know there were other levels. Did OW exist back then, and PADI just had another Basic level below that? Or did OW replace Basic at some point? I took mine spring of 1978.

=Steve=

 

[Walter]

In 1978, PADI had both. Basic was eliminated in 1986.

 

[FOUNDATIONER]

just my 2psi:


aow is just a collection of adventure dives....yes you can learn a great deal but the actual idea in my opinion is for PADI to sell courses to people who think they may want to go pro.
i think its a win win idea...people learn, PADI makes money, more
potential instructors, divemasters etc. I love capitalism.