Listing both PADI OW and AOW redundant?

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Am I missing something... In AOW you learn specific skills such deep dive (100ft) and wreck diving skills. These are skills that aren't taught in OW, so how can people say OW is better with the right instructor!?
 
I disagree with Walter.

I'm a newly anointed OW and AOW scuba diver (PADI :D ). My brother (who's been diving for 2 years and recently got his advanced diver certification) was disgusted that I went right to advanced without real world diving experience. I, on the other hand, thought my advanced training was a very valuable experience, and would recommend any new diver to complete AOW right after OW. Here's are my reasons:

- I had the opportunity to learn skills in a safe environment (Dutch Springs, PA) that I will eventually apply to a potential unsafe environment (the ocean). What's the use of diving green in this unsafe environment without at least experiencing these skills beforehand? AOW gave me this opportunity.
- I was surrounded by skilled and experienced divers (again in an agreeable environment - land, sunny, no rocking boats, etc...). I spent time getting to know these divers asking them technical questions about the skills I was about to learn, as well as their gear and setups.
- I got used to the environments I would be diving, and the equipment (dive light, compass, dive computer, wreck reel, etc...) that I would be using in the ocean.
- I dove with familiar skilled people.
- When I made mistakes underwater during my skills I had time to discuss my mistakes with my instructor. Making these mistakes and learning from them before entering the ocean is the only way to go.
- I planned my dives, and subsequent dives logging the information in my logbook before/after each dive. This gave me the experience of using my dive tables, and writing entries into my logbook. I also discussed the entries with my instructor learning how to record accurate and complete logs.

The skills I completed were: Deep Dive (62 degree water @ 95 feet); Search and Recover (used a wreck reel. had difficulty rewinding the reel. had backlash, used the reel with 5mil gloves, my only regret is not working the wreck bag for a large heavy object recovery. I did get to witness my teacher performing the skill), Peak Buoyancy Control (three new kicks to for different environments); Underwater Navigation (learned to use compass navigation); Night Dive (AWESOME. TRULY AWESOME. Made me want to be a diver that much more. AWESOME!!!!!!).

I also experienced a diver that somehow got hurt during a dive. I had opportunity to see the potential danger in this sport. I went along with my teacher on another training session, and saw a diver freak out while penetrating a wreck. Again, a sobering event.

On top of the required 5 skills above my instructor is also planning a boat dive, and wreck dive 2 weekends from now. So I finally will meet the ocean. The beauty is that I will be diving with these familiar skilled divers. I'm sure I'll learn more :D My instructor is also trying to get me a dry suit to try on, and provide dry suit training free of charge. This would be a total of 8 skills learned during my AOW class. Not bad.

I'm probably going right to Advanced Nitrox next (even before I dive the ocean on a regular basis). I believe in learning as much as I can before I take on the ocean. My brother's been diving regular air and wet suit for 2 years. He recommended I go with a dry suit, and nitrox as soon as possible. That'll be it for a while. Cave diving is next on my radar screen.

oharag
 
I'm pleased to see that my first thread (other than in Intro&Greets) prompted your first post to the board!

(And nice to hear someone who has taken a similar certification route.)

-Rob
 
Walter once bubbled...
I'm not sure I understand your disclaimer. Are you saying your opinion doesn't count for much because you're an instructor? If so, I disagree.

There are good advanced classes available, but AOW as designed by the agencies I've examined isn't one of them. If you teach beyond the requirements, that's great and how I wish everyone would teach. OTOH, most AOW classes are merely going out and diving 5 times.

Walter, yeah, I just wanted to be clear to everyone that I am an instructor, and as such, get paid for teaching AOW classes... so I guess it's fair to say that I am not totally objective. :)

However, to your second point: I teach WAY beyond what SSI requires that I teach. My AOW students are well on their way towards the Fundamentals course by the time I'm done with them. ;)

Agreed that the instructor makes the course - if the course is just 5 more dives, then I agree that it's a waste of time.
 
walter,

not that it is a legal requirement...
but the thing is it is a live-aboard and they won't let you get into the boat if you're not AOW certified...

oharag,

congratulations on your first post...
and about your concern, it's really a case to case basis...
if you learned a lot from the course you took, good for you and lucky you that you chose your instructor well...
but not all have the same experience as you nor have any chance of having david evans as their instructor...
anyway, have fun posting your next message...

joel e
 
joele once bubbled...
but not all have the same experience as you nor have any chance of having david evans as their instructor...

I just want to be clear that in no way do I think I am God's gift to diving instruction.... I do the best I know how, and I think that most instructors do the same. :) There are lots of instructors that are better than I am.

I think that the quality of instructor can make an AOW class fantastic - or can make it a "throwaway".

For instance, if doing a Night Diving specialty just means going on a dive at night with an instructor, then that's a waste of time.

If it means learning light communications skills, crisis management, lost buddy procedures, dive planning, etc., then I think it's a useful class for people that plan to dive at night.

Anyway... one of the great aspects of learning to dive is that there's ALWAYS something new to learn, whether about diving or the marine environment or about ourselves, no matter what the level of experience. And diving with experienced people, including instructors, is the best way to continue that learning process.

:)

-d
 
I did the two courses with different people and about 20-30 dives apart... so it was very different course, the first really the introduction then the second to do more, learn more and become a standard diver, before then you really are on L-plates.
 
it's just so sad that there are some divers who feel that they didn't get what they paid and found time for...
as david once said, "if the course is just 5 more dives, then I agree that it's a waste of time."
if you're AOW, you are supposed to be "advanced" and not just five dives more experienced...
 

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