Listing both PADI OW and AOW redundant?

[rab]

I've noticed that many posts and signatures have PADI OW/AOW, but others have simply PADI AOW (and some just AOW).

It seems that if one's OW and AOW are from the same certifying agency listing both is somewhat redundant. OTOH, listing different agencies could help explain someone's background. (Or should AOW trump OW in all cases?)

Since I'm new to diving and only have first-hand experience with PADI, I don't really know how the others (NAUI, TDI, SSI, YMCA, etc.) denote their levels. I've seen some posts that note differing terminology in the Dive Master and Instructor levels, but is there a table that gives the roughly equivalent designations between agencies?

-Rob

 

[Walter]

"Or should AOW trump OW in all cases?"

In most cases AOW is a joke. Many get better and more complete training in OW than in AOW. I've had students leave my OW class and take an AOW course from another instructor then tell me they learned nothing in AOW, because I'd already covered everything (and more) that was in their AOW class. I never recommend AOW to anyone.

 

[DeepTechScuba]

Put your highest level of certification into your profile on the profile page. Then you do not need to keep putting it after your signature on your posts. That saves you a lot of time.

If anyone wants to see it, they can then look it up.

 

[rab]

"In most cases AOW is a joke. " -Walter

I've seen this sentiment quite often on the boards and I think I've got an interesting perspective. In my AOW class of 6 divers, the other 5 had a few years of diving experience. 1 couldn't make the cert trip last weekend due to plans for some wreck diving in Lake Erie so I've never seen him in the water. Of the four others, I'd put myself about on par with their skills (at least as far as I could observe). They had primarily warm-water diving experience and mine was strictly cool/cold water quarry. (down to <70F during OW; down to 52F during AOW)

The temperature was definitely a factor for one of the women.

My question is really about OW being "redundant" if AOW is listed since it was a prerequisite for the AOW certification. It sounds like you might favor listing OW and dropping the AOW as superfluous.

-Rob

 

[David Evans]

I disagree with Walter (with the disclaimer in advance that I am an instructor).

I think the AOW class is a very good one, and in my opinion is a requirement - at least for diving in the Puget Sound.

My AOW classes are comprised of Nitrox, Night/Limited Viz, Navigation, and Deep.

The first three are excellent courses, and the Deep course, while simple enough, gives the new diver some experience at depth with an instructor along for the ride for comfort's sake.

I teach the basics of each of these in my OW classes (my OW class is pretty intense).

But even with the foundation of my DIR-based OW class, the AOW subjects I teach are a requirement, IMO, for diving in the Puget Sound.

I view the OW cert as a learner's permit, and the AOW as the "license to dive" in Puget Sound.

JMO,

-d

ps... the AOW also allows for additional instructor-supervised dives, which many new students want and need....

 

[joele]

in a way, your messages compliment each other...
why do i say this, in some cases, walter's sentiments are very true... there are some dive sites which require AOW certification... and sadly, these are often the only reasons why divers take AOW courses...
however, on the case of david, you have very lucky students, then...
if you're only an arm's reach, i would have taken my AOW certification with you...
on the other hand, you need the AOW to get to the higher certification courses such as the rescue and divemaster certifications...

joel e

 

[drbill]

Whether AOW is really irrelevant depends entirely on the instructors involved in the OW and AOW courses a student takes. My OW (LAC) cert class was taught by a soCal legend (Ron Merker) back in the 60's and he was a fantastic instructor. I learned all I "needed" to dive for 30+ years in that course. Then I took AOW while on the outer GBR with another great instructor just so I could get a PADI card. My LAC, although a much better cert. program in my mind, is not always recognized in international waters.

Both classes were useful to me, not necessarily because of the material taught but due to the quality of the instruction. A great instructor in OW can make AOW unnecessary while a poor instructor in OW may make AOW certification very important.

Dr. Bill

 

[joele]

oftentimes, it really depends on your instructor...

 

[Walter]

David,

I'm not sure I understand your disclaimer. Are you saying your opinion doesn't count for much because you're an instructor? If so, I disagree.

There are good advanced classes available, but AOW as designed by the agencies I've examined isn't one of them. If you teach beyond the requirements, that's great and how I wish everyone would teach. OTOH, most AOW classes are merely going out and diving 5 times.

I'm not saying OW divers don't need additional training, in fact, most are a danger to themselves and their buddies. AOW isn't the training they need. Most need to get the skills left out of their OW class, then take a real advanced class like LA County's Advanced Diver Program (the best around IMHO) or YMCA's Silver Advanced (don't bother with YMCA's AOW - it's also a joke).

Is there a need for advanced training? Yes! Is AOW filling that need? Hell no!

Bill,

Your LA County c-card will count for far more than a PADI AOW card to anyone who knows anything about training.

joele,

No. There are no sites which require an AOW card. There are ignorant operators who have such requirements, no sites. OTOH, there are sites (and conditions) which require advanced training (which you don't get in AOW) to dive safely.

rab,

AOW doesn't deal with cold water. You dive in your local conditions, could be cold or warm. BTW, I've dived cold and warm, they are different, but water temp isn't that big of a deal. Other factors are much more important.

 

[joele]

walter,

well at least here in the philippines, there are reefs wherein you need an AOW to dive into...
to be more specific, the Tubbataha reefs...
i'm just not sure about the other reefs outside of our country...
except maybe what david just wrote...

i agree though with the last sentence pertaining to me...

joel